Groundbreaking Works!

[karlhenning]

What real strippers use:

[Todd]

Not to belabor the point, but I find it unfair to call into question the artistic integrity of John Cage, who had a long and meaningful career as a composer, author and philosopher of aesthetics.

I'm not calling into question Cage's artistic integrity.  He wrote some good music.  (His other output I have no direct exposure to, and almost certainly never will.)  4'33" is not music.  It is not even art.

[Mirror Image]

What real strippers use:

Lol...good one Karl! HA!

[petrarch]

4'33" is not music.  It is not even art.

(* chortle *)

(sorry for the appropriation, Karl )

[MDL]

I don't want to take sides in the debate about 4'33", but I've got a foggy, distant memory of listening to a woman on the radio (and I can be no more specific than "woman" because this happened well over two decades ago) who dismissed the idea of 4'33" being the most abstract piece of music ever written because "where there is no form, there can be no abstraction". I always liked that quote.

It's not really relevant to this thread, I suppose.

But I just thought I'd share it.

So there.

As you were.

[Rinaldo]

Anyway, Reich's Music for 18 Musicians I think is a groundbreaking work.

How about Riley's In C, which preceded it by a decade?

[RJR]

I listened to Poème Electronique last night. Haven't for over thiry years. I don't think it stands up well by it itself anymore, it needs the visual accompaniment.

[RJR]

John Cage came to Montréal in 1989, accompanied by Margaret Leng Tan. The recital took place in a small chapel on Sherbrooke Street, in Montreal. Mr. Cage was glowing like the Buddha and Ms Leng Tan kept herself very busy plucking strings and preparing the piano for another piece. There was a question and answer period after the recital was over. I had just recently bought a mini-cassette recorder but I forgot to bring it with me. Drat! All the same, a very memorable experience.

[PaulSC]

How about Riley's In C, which preceded it [Reich's M18M] by a decade?

Also groundbreaking. They're two very different pieces, obviously. One striking feature of In C, the timekeeping pulse, was Reich's idea. (He participated in the first performance.)

[jochanaan]

What real strippers use:

LOL My stepsister's first job was at a furniture-stripping place.  She came home and told our parents, "I'm a stripper!" 

I listened to Poème Electronique last night. Haven't for over thiry years. I don't think it stands up well by it itself anymore, it needs the visual accompaniment.

I disagree; I've never seen the visual accompaniment. And it sounds fine in rooms that don't resemble cow's stomachs.

[Mirror Image]

How about Riley's In C, which preceded it by a decade?

Oh yes, that was a groundbreaking work, but you have to remember that Reich had input on this work. I find Reich's Music for 18 Musicians more mesmerizing and iconic than Riley's In C though.

[Rinaldo]

One striking feature of In C, the timekeeping pulse, was Reich's idea. (He participated in the first performance.)

You have to remember that Reich had input on this work. I find Reich's Music for 18 Musicians more mesmerizing and iconic than Riley's In C though.

Whoa, I didn't know that. Now I will remember!

And I agree that M18 is probably more "interesting", although I'm very fond of the Bang on a Can In C recording, which brings another dimension of musical bliss to the original piece.

[Luke]

Strictly speaking, though (and this is just pedantic) The Pulse is not really part of In C - it's not specified in the score. Reich suggested it, and it worked, and it's used in every performance, and the score notes that the piece 'can be aided by the means of an eighth note pulse played on the high c's of a piano or on a mallet instrument' - but it doesn't have to be. As you were...

[Shrunk]

Strictly speaking, though (and this is just pedantic) The Pulse is not really part of In C - it's not specified in the score. Reich suggested it, and it worked, and it's used in every performance, and the score notes that the piece 'can be aided by the means of an eighth note pulse played on the high c's of a piano or on a mallet instrument' - but it doesn't have to be. As you were...

Wikipedia says that the original score, but not the officially licenced one, not only included the Pulse, but specifies that it is "traditionally (played by a) beautiful girl".  FWIW. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_C

[Ugh]

Oh yes, that was a groundbreaking work, but you have to remember that Reich had input on this work. I find Reich's Music for 18 Musicians more mesmerizing and iconic than Riley's In C though.

Anyway, tracing minimalism one would have to go back to Moondog's pieces in the 40's and 50's, which influenced both Glass and Reich and had plenty of pulses in all sorts of time signatures...

[canninator]

http://www.youtube.com/v/7GMHl7bmlzw

I've fixed that link for you

http://www.youtube.com/v/pjl7QZc_GYM&feature=related

[escher]

anyway 4'33'' is not that groundbreaking after all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c5lRRaW4Jw

[karlhenning]

I think that the people who decide whether a work is groundbreaking, are the artists who find that work seminally inspirational.

[escher]

I think that the people who decide whether a work is groundbreaking, are the artists who find that work seminally inspirational.

well, there are composers that are very good promoting themselves, but i don't think that the fame have a relation with innovation (true or alleged). Anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonse_Allais

[snyprrr]

Couldn't agree more, it's a sham. A piece of theater if you will, but it's actual musical worth & substance is zero ... certainly does not break any ground at all. If it "opened doors" it was to an endless stream of idiotic trash by talentless delusional hacks that tried to pass virtually anything & everything off as art. For instance ..

http://www.youtube.com/v/7GMHl7bmlzw

That made me demonstrably angry!

Have you heard my piece for bitchslap?

SHUT UP YOKO!! (bird smilee)

As long as people like her do stuff like that, I will continue my Series for Chainsaw.

My disrespect for this kind of this is groundbreaking!


Sorry,... stuff like that really does bend me. It really made me want to see her get HURT,... badly. Art,... in a Silence of the Lambs kind of way.

And 9/11,... yea,... brilliant!!