Soprano Warbling

[mahler10th]

I've never made a secret of not liking vibrato, or excessive amounts of it, in the human voice as an art form.  One of the reasons Pavarotti was so esteemed was because his voice and high C's were clear and direct, little warbling (if any) in most cases.  Similarly, Del Monacos voice, whilst there is some warbling, presents with an airful of dramatic timbre, so one doesn't mind if he warbles or not (preferably not) .  These are just two illustrations of what I like in the voice, even though most times I haven't a clue what they're singing about.
In the female Soprano, it amazes me how many warblers there are.  I was investigating links to the end of "Sapho" in another thread, but each Soprano I heard warbled, including such antics as part of their art.  My point is, I would like to hear Sopranos with more of a crystal clear and direct timbre, a kind of sky blue clear Nordic sound, rather than flaunt the limitations and imperfections of their considerable throats.   

[mc ukrneal]

I've never made a secret of not liking vibrato, or excessive amounts of it, in the human voice as an art form.  One of the reasons Pavarotti was so esteemed was because his voice and high C's were clear and direct, little warbling (if any) in most cases.  Similarly, Del Monacos voice, whilst there is some warbling, presents with an airful of dramatic timbre, so one doesn't mind if he warbles or not (preferably not) .  These are just two illustrations of what I like in the voice, even though most times I haven't a clue what they're singing about.
In the female Soprano, it amazes me how many warblers there are.  I was investigating links to the end of "Sapho" in another thread, but each Soprano I heard warbled, including such antics as part of their art.  My point is, I would like to hear Sopranos with more of a crystal clear and direct timbre, a kind of sky blue clear Nordic sound, rather than flaunt the limitations and imperfections of their considerable throats.   

You are talking about vibrato (or excessie vibrato in this case)?

[mahler10th]

You are talking about vibrato (or excessie vibrato in this case)?

I've never made a secret of not liking vibrato, or excessive amounts of it...

[mc ukrneal]

Ha! I still must be sleeping to have read so inattentively.

I tend to agree with you. I dislike excessive vibato. And usually I prefer little to no vibrato myself. However, I do find that with French opera I do like more vibrato than I do with other nationalities (of opera). Odd that, but then they did have some different traditions as regards vibrato. But the use of vibrato is still somewhat controversial anyway. I would prefer less myself, though good singing is good singing.

The problem is worsened when some sopranos age too, so that while they may have been tolerable when young, their voice creates a beat or worse when they get older.

[Willoughby earl of Itacarius]

For me is quite easy. vibrato is not written in the score, and should not be there, apart from the natural vibrato, which amounts almost to nothing. Vibrato with soprano's is a sign that their voice is crap. And please before ya all attack me, it is my personal opinion, and I am allowed to have that.

[PaulSC]

How about violin warbling?

http://www.youtube.com/v/ICp-1YLKegM

[petrarch]

How about violin warbling?

http://www.youtube.com/v/ICp-1YLKegM

Similarly awful. That's why one of the indications I most enjoy reading in scores (typically of 20th C music) is senza vibrato sempre .

[Guido]

For me is quite easy. vibrato is not written in the score, and should not be there, apart from the natural vibrato, which amounts almost to nothing. Vibrato with soprano's is a sign that their voice is crap. And please before ya all attack me, it is my personal opinion, and I am allowed to have that.

Erm.... Breathing is usually not marked in the score, but singers are still expected to do that. If you actually read what old composers said you would see that they did want vibrato.

[mc ukrneal]

Erm.... Breathing is usually not marked in the score, but singers are still expected to do that. If you actually read what old composers said you would see that they did want vibrato.

Actually, there is a lot of disagreement on whether they did or did not want it and to what extent they wanted it. In some circles it is an explosive subject.

[MishaK]

I've never made a secret of not liking vibrato, or excessive amounts of it, in the human voice as an art form.  One of the reasons Pavarotti was so esteemed was because his voice and high C's were clear and direct, little warbling (if any) in most cases.  Similarly, Del Monacos voice, whilst there is some warbling, presents with an airful of dramatic timbre, so one doesn't mind if he warbles or not (preferably not) .  These are just two illustrations of what I like in the voice, even though most times I haven't a clue what they're singing about.
In the female Soprano, it amazes me how many warblers there are.  I was investigating links to the end of "Sapho" in another thread, but each Soprano I heard warbled, including such antics as part of their art.  My point is, I would like to hear Sopranos with more of a crystal clear and direct timbre, a kind of sky blue clear Nordic sound, rather than flaunt the limitations and imperfections of their considerable throats.   

Try Gundula Janowitz. Angelic, pure, you'll love her. Her Strauss Four Last Songs with Karajan are at the top of my desert island list.

[Guido]

Actually, there is a lot of disagreement on whether they did or did not want it and to what extent they wanted it. In some circles it is an explosive subject.

I'm talking about Verdi and Wagner and Massenet and Strauss - recordings of people who sung for these guys were made early last century and there's no one who didn't use vibrato. For Baroque singing there is more debate.

[mahler10th]

Try Gundula Janowitz. Angelic, pure, you'll love her. Her Strauss Four Last Songs with Karajan are at the top of my desert island list.

I will do.  Nice clear sopranos are so hard to find.

[springrite]

For ages, Scotto has been the worst offender. I simply can not stand it. An otherwise wonderful production of Francesca da Rimini (Zandonai) was almost ruined by her presence!

[Guido]

Is she still singing? What roles? Where?

[Wendell_E]

Is she still singing? What roles? Where?

According to wikipedia (I know, I know) her last stage performance was in 2002, and the last few years were mostly devoted to Mödlrollen.  For many years she was virtually "Queen of the Met", but she last sang there in January 1987.

The high notes could be a trial (one critic called them "paint-stripping"), but I thought her intensity and musicality more than made up for it.  I think the Met Francesca da Rimini DVD is wonderful.

[knight66]

Try Gundula Janowitz. Angelic, pure, you'll love her. Her Strauss Four Last Songs with Karajan are at the top of my desert island list.

A favourite of mine also. But she uses vibrato. Compare her vocal production to that of a boy soprano.

Now here is a vibrato and a half.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d8bF9JMznk

Now for Janowitz, even on her second note, there is vibrato. A certain amount of it is needed to provide colour to the sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJBymXyP1g0&feature=related

Boy soprano in Faure Requiem, lovely in its way, but pretty unformed in terms of controlling sound and the actual sound itself is pure, but lacking expression or warmth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6ePmrZDTfw

Also, I can't tell one of these lads from another. It is almost a generic sound, with the occasional distinctive voice briefly shining.

Mike

[knight66]

For ages, Scotto has been the worst offender. I simply can not stand it. An otherwise wonderful production of Francesca da Rimini (Zandonai) was almost ruined by her presence!

The only time I heard Scotto live would have been around 1972 and I have not deliberately listeded to her since. It was an entire evening of paintstripping.

Mike

[mahler10th]

A favourite of mine also. But she uses vibrato. Compare her vocal production to that of a boy soprano.
Mike

Yes.  She warbles too.  Clarity can be colourful without warbling.  The venerable Pavarotti was famous for it.

[Guido]

The only time I heard Scotto live would have been around 1972 and I have not deliberately listeded to her since. It was an entire evening of paintstripping.

Mike

I'm a bit mystified by this. I like what I've heard of hers. Surely the intensity is compelling? It's by no means an ugly voice, often very beautiful I think. Haven't heard any bad top notes from hers in recordings either.

Interesting that the Met has its "queens" (the ones on stage, not in the audience, definitely also a major feature of that house! http://parterre.com/ ). Currently it's obviously Renée Fleming. Who was it before her?

[Wendell_E]

Interesting that the Met has its "queens" (the ones on stage, not in the audience, definitely also a major feature of that house! http://parterre.com/ ). Currently it's obviously Renée Fleming. Who was it before her?

I think the heir apparent was Aprile Millo, but that didn't quite work out.  Jessye Norman? Or Pavarotti?  Battle thought she was, but I don't think soubrette queens are allowed.