Past Purchases (CLOSED)

[Sid]

Please note; this is a Mirror Image moment; borderline insulting to anybody not sharing his taste. You really should count to ten before you post comment on other music lovers tastes. I'm a Bartok fan and dearly love his quartets, was a fan from my first listen at around 1975; but would never post a provocative statement like that on somebody who has clearly tried but found other avenues more fruitful.

I added to my post to make it more relevant to what Conor was originally asking about - how to get into/appreciate the Bartok SQ's. I like your last phrase about people who have "tried but found other avenues more fruitful." That's why I suggested Miklos Rozsa, who has been compared to Bartok by some people, but had his own unique style (which I'm beginning to find very engaging of late). Another one from an earlier generation was Erno (Ernst von) Dohnanyi (& of course, most people here are familiar with Kodaly). All of these wrote very fine chamber music. & it's not a case of either/or or black or white, appreciating them may help the listener do the same with Bartok. It looks like that if I dare to express an opinion contrary to some people's tastes or views around here, they just pounce on me. It's getting to the stage where I have to "censor" my posts as I write them (in my mind) which is completely ridiculous, imo. This kind of thing basically never happens in "real life" discussions about music with friends or colleagues, I'm much more comfortable being honest with them than I am here. Sad thing, really...

[Scarpia]

I have Bartok's SQ's on EMI by the Alban Berg Quartet. I haven't managed to connect with these works after having them for about 18 months, except maybe the 6th. They just seem to me to be technical exercises, which is fine at some levels, but they don't engage me in many ways beyond that.

Is the Alban Berg your only exposure?  I find their recordings tend to make everything sound like a technical excercise.   I'd wager that after listening to this recording you won't find them technical excercises.   

[Conor71]

I have Bartok's SQ's on EMI by the Alban Berg Quartet. I haven't managed to connect with these works after having them for about 18 months, except maybe the 6th. They just seem to me to be technical exercises, which is fine at some levels, but they don't engage me in many ways beyond that. I'm beginning to lose my interest in Bartok now, I've known his music for over 20 years, & maybe I'm so familiar with his style that I'm bored with it. However, another excellent Hungarian c20th composer that I am really getting into now is Miklos Rozsa, who was not only a famous Hollywood film composer, but also a "serious" composer of many fine orchestral and chamber works. I have been listening to his Viola Concerto & Hungarian Serenade on Naxos for days & it's been great. On the chamber front, I'd recommend you listen to his 2 string quartets. They are in a kind of "Modern Hungarian" style close to Bartok, but Rozsa's music comes across to me to be a more emotional experience even upon first listen, rather than just a purely technical exercise...

[EDIT: I should have added that Bartok's 4th and 5th SQ's are directly modelled on two of Beethoven's late SQ's, especially in terms of structure. If you find that you are struggling with the Bartok SQ's, give the Beethoven ones a listen - esp. opp. 130, 131, 132, 133 & things might slowly "click" for you with Bartok - but Bartok's SQ's haven't "clicked" with me despite this, but it might be a good idea for you to do this & see what happens?]

Thanks very much for you reply and suggestions Sid - I'm glad i'm not the only one who struggles a bit with the Bartok Quartets's !.
Ill try and check out some of Rozsa's music on Youtube at some stage .

[The new erato]

It's getting to the stage where I have to "censor" my posts as I write them (in my mind) which is completely ridiculous, imo...

Which would be a pity and reduce the value of this board no end. Mirror Image should seriously reconsider his selfappointed role as taste police on this board and learn to respect other opinions. Not that I don't find it strange that you have failed to appreciate the beauty of Bartok's quartets, but that is hardly a personal affront to me or anybody else, and certainly nothing you should have to defend. A discussion about why, however, would be interesting, but whether you want to pursue that is your decision, not mine or anybody else's.

PS And I strongly endorse the recommendations of the Hungarian Quartet. The Alban Berg I don't know, but I have seldom been particularly excited about them in other repertoire.

[Sid]

Is the Alban Berg your only exposure?  I find their recordings tend to make everything sound like a technical excercise.   I'd wager that after listening to this recording you won't find them technical excercises.   

Well I haven't heard any alternative recordings of Bartok's SQ's but the Alban Berg Quartet's renditions of Beethoven's Opp. 130 & 133 & also the composer Berg's SQ's "clicked" with me easily, funny how the same thing didn't happen with the Bartok cycle (except maybe the 6th, as I said above)...

Thanks very much for you reply and suggestions Sid - I'm glad i'm not the only one who struggles a bit with the Bartok Quartets's !.
Ill try and check out some of Rozsa's music on Youtube at some stage .

You're welcome - apart from checking out Rozsa (youtube is probably a good start but there are many excellent recordings on the market, some at bargain price on Naxos, if you want to own something by him) don't forget Dohnanyi & I assume you must also be familiar with Kodaly?...

[Que]

[...] It looks like that if I dare to express an opinion contrary to some people's tastes or views around here, they just pounce on me. It's getting to the stage where I have to "censor" my posts as I write them (in my mind) which is completely ridiculous, imo. This kind of thing basically never happens in "real life" discussions about music with friends or colleagues, I'm much more comfortable being honest with them than I am here. Sad thing, really...

Which would be a pity and reduce the value of this board no end.

That would be a pity, and I would hate it if more members would feel like that. 

GMG is a community of lovers of Classical Music and whatever discussions or disageements we have, they should be conducted in that spirit of community - with mutual respect and without antagonism.

Q

[Mirror Image]

Please note; this is a Mirror Image moment; borderline insulting to anybody not sharing his taste. You really should count to ten before you post comment on other music lovers tastes. I'm a Bartok fan and dearly love his quartets, was a fan from my first listen at around 1975; but would never post a provocative statement like that on somebody who has clearly tried but found other avenues more fruitful. Why is it that you seem to take any comment disagreeing with your own preferences like a personal insult?

Perhaps you're right, I'll just sit back and not question anybody's tastes and the world will be a happy place, because this is what society should do. If Sid's offended by my comments, then he should re-evaluate why he's so sensitive.

[The new erato]

Perhaps you're right, I'll just sit back and not question anybody's tastes and the world will be a happy place, because this is what society should do. If Sid's offended by my comments, then he should re-evaluate why he's so sensitive.

There's a difference between asking in a polite way, and demanding answers like you're the grand inquisitor of this site. You should reevaluate your style.

How the h..l is this line relevant to a discussion of bartok's quartets; "I find this interesting from somebody who claims to have a wide range of taste" - as you seem to imply that anybody not liking (or understanding) these quartets certainly can't have a wide range of taste? I have news for you, there's tons of civilized, educated and cultured people not liking everything you like, and you better treat them with respect!

[mc ukrneal]

It looks like that if I dare to express an opinion contrary to some people's tastes or views around here, they just pounce on me. It's getting to the stage where I have to "censor" my posts as I write them (in my mind) which is completely ridiculous, imo. This kind of thing basically never happens in "real life" discussions about music with friends or colleagues, I'm much more comfortable being honest with them than I am here. Sad thing, really...

Sid, many of us enjoy your posts. That doesn't mean we will always agree, but it does mean you add to the discussion in both the content and manner in which you post. I would be very sad to see that go away.

[Conor71]

You're welcome - apart from checking out Rozsa (youtube is probably a good start but there are many excellent recordings on the market, some at bargain price on Naxos, if you want to own something by him) don't forget Dohnanyi & I assume you must also be familiar with Kodaly?...

Thanks Sid - I have a Disc of Dohnanyi Chamber Music which is nice listening. I've heard of Kodaly (from Close Encounters Of The 3rd Kind  ) but I dont think i've heard anything by him so another new composer to check out at some stage.
I would definetely buy a Disc by one of these composers if it was'nt for the embargo I have put on myself from buying any new music for a while! (I have a 25 CD set of Jazz Music on its way)  0:) .

Sid, many of us enjoy your posts. That doesn't mean we will always agree, but it does mean you add to the discussion in both the content and manner in which you post. I would be very sad to see that go away.

Ditto!

[DavidW]

Sid, I love Bartok (in fact last week I was just listening to that Solti set that MI rec'd) but I've had a similar burnout experience with the Beatles and understand where you're coming from (and I used to love the Beatles).

[Florestan]

Mirror Image should seriously reconsider his selfappointed role as taste police on this board and learn to respect other opinions.

There's a difference between asking in a polite way, and demanding answers like you're the grand inquisitor of this site. You should reevaluate your style.

I have news for you, there's tons of civilized, educated and cultured people not liking everything you like, and you better treat them with respect!

Sound advices that have been offered by different posters on different threads --- to no avail, it seems. 

[Mirror Image]

and you better treat them with respect!

How demanding you are! Thanks for the pep talk coach.

[Philoctetes]

There's a difference between asking in a polite way, and demanding answers like you're the grand inquisitor of this site. You should reevaluate your style.

How the h..l is this line relevant to a discussion of bartok's quartets; "I find this interesting from somebody who claims to have a wide range of taste" - as you seem to imply that anybody not liking (or understanding) these quartets certainly can't have a wide range of taste? I have news for you, there's tons of civilized, educated and cultured people not liking everything you like, and you better treat them with respect!

I never thought I'd use the ignore function, but ignoring Mirror Image has made this site so much more seamless.

[The new erato]

The latest IRR had a long Liszt article with strong recommendations for this work and this performance in particular, cheap at mdt so I went along and ordered it.



LISZT Christus. Benita Valente, Marjana Lipovsek, Peter Lindroos, Tom Krause, Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra / James Colon. Apex 3cds

[Scarpia]

I never thought I'd use the ignore function, but ignoring Mirror Image has made this site so much more seamless.

If you do that you will get the impression that this is a web site populated by mental cases who perpetually get upset over nonexistent affronts.

My MI policy is based on a quote from the character Lt. Fancy from one of my favorite cop shows, NYPD Blue.  "My idea's when I hear an ass out in the field braying, I don't feel any deep need to start braying back."

[The new erato]

If you do that you will get the impression that this is a web site populated by mental cases who perpetually get upset over nonexistent affronts.

My MI policy is based on a quote from the character Lt. Fancy from one of my favorite cop shows, NYPD Blue.  "My idea's when I hear an ass out in the field braying, I don't feel any deep need to start braying back."

I guess a man can only take that much crap though. Good show that, BTW.

[Mirror Image]

The latest IRR had a long Liszt article with strong recommendations for this work and this performance in particular, cheap at mdt so I went along and ordered it.



LISZT Christus. Benita Valente, Marjana Lipovsek, Peter Lindroos, Tom Krause, Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra / James Colon. Apex 3cds

That is a very interesting recording, Erato. I haven't listened to in years but I remember liking it for the most part. There aren't many recordings of that massive work available.

[Mirror Image]

Just bought:

[asin]B001UWOIPA[/asin]

Pizzetti was apart of the "Generation of 1880," which also included Respighi, Casella, and Malipiero whose purpose was to free the shackles of previous composers like Verdi, Puccini, etc. to create a new, more up-to-date, modern Italian style of music. Pizzetti is the only one of this group I have not heard, so I look forward to this recording and the price was right.

[Sid]

Sid, many of us enjoy your posts. That doesn't mean we will always agree, but it does mean you add to the discussion in both the content and manner in which you post. I would be very sad to see that go away.

Thanks for that. I also enjoy many other member's posts here. It keeps me informed about many things which I might otherwise be unaware of. When I'm talking about music here I try to emphasise that what I'm saying is just my opinion, nothing more. Some others may have similar opinions/experiences (like fellow Aussie member Conor re the Bartok SQ's above), while others might not agree. That's life.

Sid, I love Bartok (in fact last week I was just listening to that Solti set that MI rec'd) but I've had a similar burnout experience with the Beatles and understand where you're coming from (and I used to love the Beatles).

Yes, it is a case of "burnout" with Bartok & some other composers with me. I've known his music for over 20 years, & listened to it on record and live in that time. Some of his pieces I like, others not (same with most other composers). From my point of view, there's no need to get stuck in a groove if you're not digging something, if it's not connecting with you. No need to force yourself to understand this or that piece (like Conor re the Bartok SQ's). You can go off & get into similar but different music that might resonate with you more on other levels - that's why I recommended Miklos Rozsa's string quartets to Conor. Not because they are "better" than Bartok, but because they might say something to him that Bartok's doesn't - as they certainly do with me. On a similar note, I really don't enjoy J.S. Bach that much but I absolutely love & connect with Handel - who as it turns out was born in the same year ...

Thanks Sid - I have a Disc of Dohnanyi Chamber Music which is nice listening. I've heard of Kodaly (from Close Encounters Of The 3rd Kind  ) but I dont think i've heard anything by him so another new composer to check out at some stage.
I would definetely buy a Disc by one of these composers if it was'nt for the embargo I have put on myself from buying any new music for a while! (I have a 25 CD set of Jazz Music on its way)  0:) .

Well it's interesting because all of these composers were connected in some way, being in Budapest in the 1930's and '40's. BTW, I am also buying much less cd's now than what I used to. I have found the City of Sydney library network a great resource to borrow some excellent recordings, some of them rare and out of print. I even found a couple of Rozsa recordings on their catalogue (on the Telarc label) which I'll have to borrow at some stage. If you're near a major city in Australia then it's a good idea to look into it's library network/s.

You were saying you had problems with Xenakis. Some other composers of the mid to late c20th that you might wish to get into (their chamber music) are Skalkottas, Eliott Carter & Benjamin Lees. Skalkottas, a bit like Berg, was a atonal/serial composer with a Romantic tinge. Of Carter, I'd recommend his 1st SQ, which takes one single theme on a very imaginative journey (the other SQ's are more "difficult," the 1st is the one I can appreciate most clearly). Of Benjamin Lees, there's a Naxos disc of 3 of his SQ's, in a Modernist style reminiscent of Britten & Shostakovich, but I hear a bit of Messiaen in there too. If you want more recommendations just PM me...