Haydn Seven Last Words

[Verena]

I prefer the version for string Quartet, in the interpretation of the Mosaiques Quartet.

Regarding the orchestral version, Savall is my favorite.

Thanks! Just checked out the Savall - there are actually three versions around; in addition to the two already mentioned, there is also a filmed version on DVD. Anyone know that one?

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks! Just checked out the Savall - there are actually three versions around; in addition to the two already mentioned, there is also a filmed version on DVD. Anyone know that one?

I haven't heard it, but one of the CD's (the earlier one, I think) is the soundtrack of the video version, thus they are identical. I have the Alia Vox version, it is a gorgeous production in a fat digipak with a 150 page book along with the disk. You will feel as though you know what there is to know about this work after reading that! It's from 2006, so I believe it is the second version. FWIW, I recommend it as my concept of the 'definitive' performance.

[Verena]

I haven't heard it, but one of the CD's (the earlier one, I think) is the soundtrack of the video version, thus they are identical. I have the Alia Vox version, it is a gorgeous production in a fat digipak with a 150 page book along with the disk. You will feel as though you know what there is to know about this work after reading that! It's from 2006, so I believe it is the second version. FWIW, I recommend it as my concept of the 'definitive' performance.

Sounds like a must have...    Thanks!

[TheGSMoeller]

Love this piece GSM.  My favorite Haydn piece in fact.  I have the Emerson String Quartet performance of it.  Now....I must go and listen to it.

My next version, orchestral? or oratorio?

[Brahmsian]

My next version, orchestral? or oratorio?

That I couldn't tell you.  I've only ever heard the string quartet version.

[Antoine Marchand]

My next version, orchestral? or oratorio?

Well, both discs are superb, Greg.

Maybe the original version (orchestral) has a sort of better right? 

Besides there is a beautiful version for solo keyboard, not directly by Haydn, but done under his supervision.

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[TheGSMoeller]

Well, both discs are superb, Greg.

Maybe the original version (orchestral) has a sort of better right? 

Besides there is a beautiful version for solo keyboard, not directly by Haydn, but done under his supervision.

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Great! Thanks for the info tonito 

[Antoine Marchand]

Great! Thanks for the info tonito 

You're welcome, Greg. My favourite version for solo keyboard is Brautigam (on fortepiano), but there is plenty of another versions on modern piano (McCabe), fortepiano (Immerseel, Tuma, van Oort) and even on clavichord (Häkkinen). 

[Que]

Tranferred some posts from the listening thread to here.

My next version, orchestral? or oratorio?

I'm personally still very taken by Harnoncourt's recording of the choral version.

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Q

[Mandryka]

I'll try it out through spotify. Have you heard the Scherchen performance of the choral version?

[mjwal]

Funny you should mention that, Mandryka - I saw the thread and thought aha, missed that, I'll write and recommend the Scherchen. I picked it up as a Westminster LP in Hamburg in the mid-60s. It has always been one of my very favourite Haydn works, though I am not in general an inconditionnel of sacred music. I have just stuck with the LP. I've heard a couple of recordings of the quartet version, and it leaves me cold. Judging by some of the responses above, I should try the Harnoncourt and Savall CDs, though.

[Gurn Blanston]

My next version, orchestral? or oratorio?

Well, to start out at the beginning (which I always do!), in answer to your original question, I would urge you to start out with the orchestral version and get to really know the work from there. IMO, that version stands on its own as the definitive arrangement of "The Seven Last Words". It is what Haydn was commissioned to compose, and thus his real first ideas on it.

The string quartet version (by Haydn) is very enjoyable, although it can't carry the weight that the orchestra does, which is important to the work, IMO. I like it though and play it fairly often.

The keyboard solo version (approved by Haydn) is the least weighty because the instrument just can't carry the import of the music. It is, nonetheless interesting, but it doesn't bring Good Friday to mind, which is a good or bad thing depending on your expectations. As an aside, I would be interested to hear a sympathetic performance on a church organ of this score. It could be killer!

The oratorio version (arranged by Haydn from a text by van Swieten). comes around full circle. It has all the weightiness of the original plus the added interest of displaying each word and a homily about it. It is most like the original despite the vocal additions. Of course, Haydn had 11 years between the 2, so any ideas that he had vis-a-vis setting a text had plenty of time to crystallize, especially given that he had spent a good deal of time in England listening to oratorios, mainly by Handel.

If you are planning on a methodical exploration of this work, then IMO, doing it in chronological order is, well, logical as well as chrono-logical.

These are the 4 versions that have made ME happy:




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Now playing:
London PO / Bryson Thomson  Rafael Wallisch (Cello) - Kabalevsky Op 77 Concerto #2 in c for Cello & Orchestra 1st mvmt - Molto sostenuto - Allegro molto e energico - Tempo I

[Antoine Marchand]

Well, to start out at the beginning (which I always do!)...

Nice summary, Gurn. I have posted this info at least two times before, but I think it's complementary with your post:

The Seven Last Words has come down to us in no fewer than five versions, all of which were produced over a period of some 10 years:

a) the original version for orchestra, frequently dated 1785, in other sources 1787;

b) the version for string quartet , completed before 21 June 1787, and made under Haydn's supervision.

c) the version for "Clavicembalo o Fortepiano", also referred as a "Piano Score" (in his letter of  21-6-1787) "selbst übersehen und corrigirt", i.e., also created under his supervision.

d) a version (perhaps even two) as a oratorio for soloists, chorus and orchestra, made by Joseph Friebert, music director of the Cathedral of Passau, 1792 (?).

e) an oratorio version made by Haydn himself, probably dating from 1795/1796.

It's very impressive how well this work could stand these different versions, especially when the beginning idea was already a sort of tour de force: seven meditations on the last words of Jesus Christ, all of them composed like slow movements. And every version sounds perfectly idiomatic regarding its own genre.

I have always had a soft spot for the keyboard version, not arranged by Haydn himself, but supervised by him. I think the transcription was simply superb and it got to create a true work for fortepiano solo. An very special because I think it's quite unique and exceptional for the age as attempt of program music for fortepiano, especially if we consider its extension.

Finally, my favorite discs on every version are exactly the same pointed out by you, but I would like to recall the choral version by Accentus. Particularly because it's performed like a sort of reversed version of the colla parte technique, with the voices doubling and reinforcing the instrumental lines what naturally stress the sense of the text.

[Gurn Blanston]

Nice summary, Gurn. I have posted this info at least two times before, but I think it's complementary with your post:

It's very impressive how well this work could stand these different versions, especially when the beginning idea was already a sort of tour de force: seven meditations on the last words of Jesus Christ, all of them composed like slow movements. And every version sounds perfectly idiomatic regarding its own genre.

I have always had a soft spot for the keyboard version, not arranged by Haydn himself, but supervised by him. I think the transcription was simply superb and it got to create a true work for fortepiano solo. An very special because I think it's quite unique and exceptional for the age as attempt of program music for fortepiano, especially if we consider its extension.

Finally, my favorite discs on every version are exactly the same pointed out by you, but I would like to recall the choral version by Accentus. Particularly because it's performed like a sort of reversed version of the colla parte technique, with the voices doubling and reinforcing the instrumental lines what naturally stress the sense of the text.

Toñito,
I didn't mention the Friebert version because I have never seen a recording of it, just textual descriptions.  I know that Haydn was intrigued by it, but felt he could do it better (!) and so while he was working on it, he got van Swieten to write the texts. I would like to hear Friebert's version, if for no other reason than to hear it.   I also have that Accentus version and enjoy it too. It is a nice alternative to the Harnoncourt. I think it depends for what reason are you listening?

Is that Harnoncourt/Teldec that I pictured the exact same one that others have done? I thought it strange when I went to Amazon this morning to quickly grab that green cover and they didn't have it, only the other. 3 years ago when I bought the green one, this tan one was not there either.



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Now playing:
London PO / Bryson Thomson  Rafael Wallisch (Cello) - Khachaturian Concerto in e for Cello 3rd mvmt - Allegro (a battuta)

[TheGSMoeller]

Thank you Que, Gurn & tonito. I am greatly looking forward to exploring this wonderful piece even more.
Looks like I have some spending to take care of.

[Gurn Blanston]

Thank you Que, Gurn & tonito. I am greatly looking forward to exploring this wonderful piece even more.
Looks like I have some spending to take care of.

Just a mention of this, maybe not something that you concern yourself with (but I do!);  I shopped long and carefully for these disks, and bought alll of them either "Used - Like New" on the Marketplace or eBay. The Savall I got at BRO for $7.99. My total investment was <>$30!  Of course, I ended up with a lot of others in the process, but that's how it goes.



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Now playing:
Armenian Philharmonic Orchestra / Loris Tjeknavorian - Khatchaturian Suite from 'Gayaneh' pt 4 - Lullaby

[Antoine Marchand]

I would like to hear Friebert's version, if for no other reason than to hear it.

Me too; exactly for the same reason. After all the genius took his idea of a choral version from Friebert. 

Is that Harnoncourt/Teldec that I pictured the exact same one that others have done? I thought it strange when I went to Amazon this morning to quickly grab that green cover and they didn't have it, only the other. 3 years ago when I bought the green one, this tan one was not there either.

Yes, it's the same version.

[SonicMan46]

Nice summary, Gurn............

Finally, my favorite discs on every version are exactly the same pointed out by you, but I would like to recall the choral version by Accentus. Particularly because it's performed like a sort of reversed version of the colla parte technique, with the voices doubling and reinforcing the instrumental lines what naturally stress the sense of the text.

I'd also have to give a 'thumbs up' to the choral version discussed above & shown below; also some excellent comments from Scott Morrison on Amazon HERE - the vocal rendition is probably my favorite although I own several of the others pictured, plus the SQ version w/ the Emersons - 

[kishnevi]

Just dipping in to mention that the Brautigam recording is included as the last disc on his Haydn set with BIS, in case that's pertinent to your purchasing plans.

[SonicMan46]

Just dipping in to mention that the Brautigam recording is included as the last disc on his Haydn set with BIS, in case that's pertinent to your purchasing plans.

Yes, I own that BIG box which includes the disc above - now I also have the Savall orchestral recording in my 'dump' pile - I just don't like the guy narrating the verses between the various instrumental movements, which are excellent - just my problem, I guess - BUT, would like any other suggestions for this version?  Thanks all -