Soprano Warbling

[Bulldog]

In a related category, did anyone hear the recent heinous non vibratoed Mahler 9 from Norrington? The man's a crook, the level of intellectual disonesty and historical revisionism astonishing in its brazenness.

I have Norrington's Maher 9th and rather like the interpretation (I'm not a fan of significant vibrato).  At any rate, I think your description of Norrington is far-fetched.

[Guido]

I have Norrington's Maher 9th and rather like the interpretation (I'm not a fan of significant vibrato).  At any rate, I think your description of Norrington is far-fetched.

You don't think his ideas on vibrato and historical claims are dishonest and revisionist?

[Harry Powell]

It would be hardly surprising, as the HIP's ideas about vibrato in singing are fallacious. They try to dissociate singing from the so-called Manuel García's School, but García in fact invented nothing. He just put in order the knowledge that had come down to him (through his father) from the Eighteenth Century Masters. So it's very doubtful that in operas prior to García vibrato must be avoided.

[Bulldog]

You don't think his ideas on vibrato and historical claims are dishonest and revisionist?

My concern is what I think about his recorded performances.  For example, I love HIP and period instruments, not for any notions of historical accuracy but because of the enjoyment I derive.  However, I doubt very much that Norrington thinks his ideas lack honesty.

[Harry Powell]

One can be honestly boring, for that matter.

[zamyrabyrd]

It would be hardly surprising, as the HIP's ideas about vibrato in singing are fallacious. They try to dissociate singing from the so-called Manuel García's School, but García in fact invented nothing. He just put in order the knowledge that had come down to him (through his father) from the Eighteenth Century Masters. So it's very doubtful that in operas prior to García vibrato must be avoided.

It's nice to hear some common sense on the vibrato issue. I read the above in Cornelius Reid's Bel Canto who backed up his arguments with more than hearsay.
Who said that "Tradition is the last bad performance"?

Janet

[Harry Powell]

I read this information in Rodolfo Celletti's "Il canto". He devoted one chapter to uncover some of the HIP's distortions and the essentially bad singing they promote. Another counterfeit he exposes is the lack of historic background to the use of the so-called countertenors in roles which where conceived for castrati.

It's an interesting book, but its warnings have become cruel reality since its publication in 1989.

[zamyrabyrd]

I read this information in Rodolfo Celletti's "Il canto". He devoted one chapter to uncover some of the HIP's distortions and the essentially bad singing they promote. Another counterfeit he exposes is the lack of historic background to the use of the so-called countertenors in roles which where conceived for castrati.

It's an interesting book, but its warnings have become cruel reality since its publication in 1989.

Thanks for the name of the book. Actually, I'd like to order it. I think I can manage the Italian. 
It was really amusing to see the blurb of a recital on TV of a countertenor featuring arias of "great castrati".
Monochromatic voices are boring to me even with all their 3 registers. Excluding the voce di petto leaves a truncated middle voice and a lengthy but saccharine falsetto. This was never bel canto.

ZB

[Harry Powell]

You should try either Abebooks.com or Alibris.com, since the book has been out of print for a number of years. Celletti was an integral italianate critic, I think some of his remarks will puzzle Anglo-Saxon readers but you will appreciate his explanations of covering and joining registers.

Monochromatic voices are boring to me even with all their 3 registers. Excluding the voce di petto leaves a truncated middle voice and a lengthy but saccharine falsetto. This was never bel canto.

Yes, YES, YES! Do you know how difficult is becoming to read or listen to such opinions? The public's taste has been perverted to such an extent that singing without chest resonance is acceptable for the first time in the History of singing! Still, I must admit some of the last batch of CT's have improved a lot. Give Bejun Mehta a chance.

Harry.

[zamyrabyrd]

The book Il Canto apparently has been translated into English. By the description it seems like the same book, fascinating, too...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Bel-Canto-Clarendon-Paperbacks/dp/0198166419/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313041550&sr=1-4

ZB

[Harry Powell]

That's another one. "Storia del belcanto" has a more musicological approach. Very interesting reading, but "Il canto" is more controversial (and funny).