Gurn's Classical Corner

[Gurn Blanston]

LvB rehab. Concentrating on chamber was a good idea.

You're most welcome, amigo. We couldn't let you go on, believing the man was a total animal.   He was actually just a semi-animal. In truth, the reason I offered that suggestion was because I have seen your particular complaint voiced many times here in the 10 years I have been on board, and it seemed to always be about the orchestral music. Since I am actually Texas Ray, and mainly listen to chamber music, it was a hard idea to relate to, knowing what I knew. I'm very pleased that you are modifying your stance a bit.

[chasmaniac]

if you can, get yourself a listen to Immerseel's period set of Beethoven symphonies and see what you think:



His fifth transformed me from a state of '.... alright', to rocking around the room and punching the air. Exploring the rest of the box was as exciting a ride as classical music has ever given me.

The chamber stuff hooked me, but I got the box in this afternoon and it reeled me in. Just did the fifth. This is great. Quick and energetic without losing its centre of gravity or falling into mere bombast. Extremely well-recorded. Not a whit of self-conscious this-is-Beethoven-so-make-it-sound-important nonsense. Straight up, enthusiastic music making.

Moved on to the fourth, which I've never liked, and I'm enjoying that too!

The Corner wins the internets!

Much thanks. 

[Gurn Blanston]

The chamber stuff hooked me, but I got the box in this afternoon and it reeled me in. Just did the fifth. This is great. Quick and energetic without losing its centre of gravity or falling into mere bombast. Extremely well-recorded. Not a whit of self-conscious this-is-Beethoven-so-make-it-sound-important nonsense. Straight up, enthusiastic music making.

Moved on to the fourth, which I've never liked, and I'm enjoying that too!

The Corner wins the internets!

Much thanks. 

Huzzah! The transparent nature of period instruments cast an entirely different aura at the listener than "old-fashioned" playing does. If somewhere in the back of your mind you have always felt like there was something missing (well, really the opposite isn't it, like there was way too much) in traditional performances, than you owe it to yourself to at least try PI. You'll either love it or hate it, but at least it will be your opinion and not someone else's...

[kishnevi]

Received this today, with (inter alia) two other Hummel CDs from the London Mozart Players series on Chandos.   Played this one:

negative--only 50 minutes long.
Other than that, I'm very positive about this recording.  The liner notes suggest that it was written for performance at Esterhaza, although there are no records of any actual performance in Hummel's lifetime, and the only known source is an autograph score in the British Library. 
The libretto is a very compressed version of the entire Exodus story, not just the Passage of the Red Sea as the title would suggest.  Musical is very Haydnesque, but the structure is a bit unusual, in that the solo numbers are usually narrative, and almost all include choral portions.  The pieces which explore inner emotion are actually the choral pieces here, not the arias, as they express (usually with Biblical paraphrases) the emotions of the Israelite slaves as they progress from slavery to freedom.

I'm not sure if the performance is really PI, although the recitatives are accompanied by a fortepiano.

Overall, I can be pretty sure that this CD will be receiving repeated listening.

[Geo Dude]

Any recommendations for Mozart's sonatas on the fortepiano?  At this point I'm looking for a single disc, not a full cycle.

[Elgarian]

The chamber stuff hooked me, but I got the box in this afternoon and it reeled me in. Just did the fifth. This is great. Quick and energetic without losing its centre of gravity or falling into mere bombast. Extremely well-recorded. Not a whit of self-conscious this-is-Beethoven-so-make-it-sound-important nonsense. Straight up, enthusiastic music making.

Huzzah again! I particularly chuckle at your 'this-is-Beethoven-so-make-it-sound-important' description of the traditional approach. By comparison, this 5th has Captain James T. Immerseel, on the bridge of the newly-built Enterprise, saying, with a glint in his eye: 'Let's see what she's got!'

[Leo K.]

I want to praise this disk:



I am always deeply moved when I listen to a Kraus symphony...always surprised by his musical turns of phrase. On this recording the symphony in F has an amazing 1st movement, which soars in 3/4 time, and has much drama to boot. Also, the fugal intensity of the one movement "Sinfonia da Chiesa in D" is simply brilliant.

Yay to Naxos!

I have yet to get the Vol.3 disk of Kraus's symphonies on Naxos, I can't believe I've been sitting on this decision all this time!

[Gurn Blanston]

Any recommendations for Mozart's sonatas on the fortepiano?  At this point I'm looking for a single disc, not a full cycle.

I assume that you want a sort of sampling so you can get a feel for how they sound on a fortepiano? This single disk is excellent, it might just fill the bill for you;

[asin]B00005AMMH[/asin]

This fellow, Kristian Bezuidenhout, is now in the process of recording a full cycle on a different label, but this was his first disk (as far as I know), and it is very fine.

[Gurn Blanston]

I want to praise this disk:



I am always deeply moved when I listen to a Kraus symphony...always surprised by his musical turns of phrase. On this recording the symphony in F has an amazing 1st movement, which soars in 3/4 time, and has much drama to boot. Also, the fugal intensity of the one movement "Sinfonia da Chiesa in D" is simply brilliant.

Yay to Naxos!

I have yet to get the Vol.3 disk of Kraus's symphonies on Naxos, I can't believe I've been sitting on this decision all this time!

Heck yea! Kraus (I love this; "The Swedish Mozart" ) is splendid. He also write some fine chamber music, I must say. 6 string quartets (mostly available, at least they were a couple years ago), at least 1 piano trio, some violin sonatas, and several works for solo pianoforte. And this one featuring the Schuppanzigh Quartet and Anton Steck;



One of my favorite Kraus disks is this one;



and this other gift from Naxos;


The Amphitryon combines my enjoyment for incidental music with my passion for Harmoniemusik.

So, well beyond the wonderful 4 symphony disks from Naxos, there is a bunch of Kraus out there for our listening enjoyment. He's there with Rosetti in the sense of being one of the really good composers that you just don't hear enough about to encourage you chase them down. Worth the effort though.

[Leo K.]

Heck yea! Kraus (I love this; "The Swedish Mozart" ) is splendid. He also write some fine chamber music, I must say. 6 string quartets (mostly available, at least they were a couple years ago), at least 1 piano trio, some violin sonatas, and several works for solo pianoforte. And this one featuring the Schuppanzigh Quartet and Anton Steck;



One of my favorite Kraus disks is this one;



and this other gift from Naxos;


The Amphitryon combines my enjoyment for incidental music with my passion for Harmoniemusik.

So, well beyond the wonderful 4 symphony disks from Naxos, there is a bunch of Kraus out there for our listening enjoyment. He's there with Rosetti in the sense of being one of the really good composers that you just don't hear enough about to encourage you chase them down. Worth the effort though.

Gurn, besides the Schuppanzigh Quartet disk, I have the Salagon Quartet disk of Kraus' quartets, an excellant disk! The Schuppanzigh Quartet recording is a new disc I am about to listen to, as well as these recordings that I just picked up some time ago:




Next I want to explore his solo piano music on Naxos...so much to explore   

[Gurn Blanston]

Gurn, besides the Schuppanzigh Quartet disk, I have the Salagon Quartet disk of Kraus' quartets, an excellant disk! The Schuppanzigh Quartet recording is a new disc I am about to listen to, as well as these recordings that I just picked up some time ago:




Next I want to explore his solo piano music on Naxos...so much to explore   

Ah, I could check out the Salagon disk. I have the Lysell Quartet on Musica Sveciae (sic) (4 quartets only) but I would like to get something different.

I have Brautigam playing the complete pianoforte music on BIS. I saw the Naxos disk but had to make a choice. Big Brautigam fan.
[asin]B000F6ZIKG[/asin]

That cantata is totally new to me. Looks interesting. Let me know what you think. Now the Lieder with Keyboard. I see Glen Wilson's name on there. I wonder if this is the excellent fortepianist Glen Wilson, or another Glen Wilson that I've never heard of? Be interesting to find out.

Haydn famously called Kraus a genius. He was always generous with praise, of course, but  he didn't toss 'the g word' around lightly.

[Geo Dude]

I assume that you want a sort of sampling so you can get a feel for how they sound on a fortepiano? This single disk is excellent, it might just fill the bill for you;

[asin]B00005AMMH[/asin]

This fellow, Kristian Bezuidenhout, is now in the process of recording a full cycle on a different label, but this was his first disk (as far as I know), and it is very fine.

Well, yes, that and I'm not sure that I'm a big enough Mozart fan to want a full cycle of piano sonatas.  I'm looking for a disc with the 'mature' works, whatever they may be.

I had a feeling you would come through for me!  Let me know what other recommendations you have within this framework.  I may be asking too much given a limited market for HIP, but available for cheap on the Amazon marketplace is always good.

[Leo K.]

Ah, I could check out the Salagon disk. I have the Lysell Quartet on Musica Sveciae (sic) (4 quartets only) but I would like to get something different.

I have Brautigam playing the complete pianoforte music on BIS. I saw the Naxos disk but had to make a choice. Big Brautigam fan.
[asin]B000F6ZIKG[/asin]

That cantata is totally new to me. Looks interesting. Let me know what you think. Now the Lieder with Keyboard. I see Glen Wilson's name on there. I wonder if this is the excellent fortepianist Glen Wilson, or another Glen Wilson that I've never heard of? Be interesting to find out.

Haydn famously called Kraus a genius. He was always generous with praise, of course, but  he didn't toss 'the g word' around lightly.

Gurn, I believe that is the Glen Wilson that you have heard of 

Hmmmm, I forgot Brautigam has a collection of Kraus' solo piano works...I'm a big fan of Brautigam, currently enjoying his Haydn Sonata set, an amazing set in every way!

[SonicMan46]

Gurn, I believe that is the Glen Wilson that you have heard of 

Hmmmm, I forgot Brautigam has a collection of Kraus' solo piano works...I'm a big fan of Brautigam, currently enjoying his Haydn Sonata set, an amazing set in every way!

Leo - take a look at the Kraus Thread HERE for an explanation of that piano w/ salad on it!    Dave

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, yes, that and I'm not sure that I'm a big enough Mozart fan to want a full cycle of piano sonatas.  I'm looking for a disc with the 'mature' works, whatever they may be.

I had a feeling you would come through for me!  Let me know what other recommendations you have within this framework.  I may be asking too much given a limited market for HIP, but available for cheap on the Amazon marketplace is always good.

Sure, when you are approaching someone new to you, it's best to sidle up edgewise and stick your toe in.   Well, all the works on this disk are 'mature' works. If that is a rule of thumb for you, it's a good one, but not necessarily applies to all composers. In any case, anything with a K# higher than 200 is not juvenilia any more, since he was a totally mature composer by 15 years old. Here is what's on that disk;

1. Fantasia in C minor, K. 475   
2. Piano Sonata No. 14 in C minor, K. 457
3. Adagio in B minor, K. 540
4. Piano Sonata No. 8 in A minor, K. 310
5. Fantasia in D minor, K. 397

The first 2 go together as a set. He wrote the sonata for one of his more brilliant students in Vienna, and then the Fantasia a few months later "to be used as a prelude when you play your sonata". The pair together are among his finest keyboard works.

The Adagio in b minor is from 1788, just 3 years before his death. Probably written for himself. It is s thing of beauty.

The sonata in a minor has been, for many years, assigned to late in his Paris journey, probably shortly after the death of his mother there. It is the earliest one here, at 1779 or so, but is also the favorite sonata of nearly everyone who offers a choice.

And the Fantasia in d minor, started in 1786 while he was working on "Figaro" left with a few bars at the end unfinished, and completed by an anonymous composer so that the publisher could sell it. It is one of my favorite pieces of his solo piano work.

So this is a good cross-section of mature works, one that will either sell you on Mozart or else fairly put you off forever. I'm betting on the former. And the reason that I'm pushing this one a bit hard is that I don't have any other ideas. There aren't a lot of options out there that don't involve buying a big box of something or other.

If you're passing through Nacogdoches sometime, stop in and I'll play you some Mozart. I am one of the finest CD players in the country.

[Geo Dude]

Sure, when you are approaching someone new to you, it's best to sidle up edgewise and stick your toe in.   Well, all the works on this disk are 'mature' works. If that is a rule of thumb for you, it's a good one, but not necessarily applies to all composers. In any case, anything with a K# higher than 200 is not juvenilia any more, since he was a totally mature composer by 15 years old. Here is what's on that disk;

1. Fantasia in C minor, K. 475   
2. Piano Sonata No. 14 in C minor, K. 457
3. Adagio in B minor, K. 540
4. Piano Sonata No. 8 in A minor, K. 310
5. Fantasia in D minor, K. 397

The first 2 go together as a set. He wrote the sonata for one of his more brilliant students in Vienna, and then the Fantasia a few months later "to be used as a prelude when you play your sonata". The pair together are among his finest keyboard works.

The Adagio in b minor is from 1788, just 3 years before his death. Probably written for himself. It is s thing of beauty.

The sonata in a minor has been, for many years, assigned to late in his Paris journey, probably shortly after the death of his mother there. It is the earliest one here, at 1779 or so, but is also the favorite sonata of nearly everyone who offers a choice.

And the Fantasia in d minor, started in 1786 while he was working on "Figaro" left with a few bars at the end unfinished, and completed by an anonymous composer so that the publisher could sell it. It is one of my favorite pieces of his solo piano work.

So this is a good cross-section of mature works, one that will either sell you on Mozart or else fairly put you off forever. I'm betting on the former. And the reason that I'm pushing this one a bit hard is that I don't have any other ideas. There aren't a lot of options out there that don't involve buying a big box of something or other.

If you're passing through Nacogdoches sometime, stop in and I'll play you some Mozart. I am one of the finest CD players in the country.

Thank you for all the information!  In any case, I do have some previous experience with Mozart, but it's been rather uneven (same with Haydn), so I'm trying to really dig in and find some stuff that will click with me so I can give non-Beethoven classical era material a proper chance.  Among other things, I'm comparing and contrasting HIP and modern recordings (and HIP influenced recordings with modern instruments!)  I've listened to samples of both that disc and the first disc in the cycle he started and it's toss up between those two right now.  I like the sound of the instrument better on the second, but I like the pieces better on the first disc, I think.  Decisions, decisions...

[Gurn Blanston]

Thank you for all the information!  In any case, I do have some previous experience with Mozart, but it's been rather uneven (same with Haydn), so I'm trying to really dig in and find some stuff that will click with me so I can give non-Beethoven classical era material a proper chance.  Among other things, I'm comparing and contrasting HIP and modern recordings (and HIP influenced recordings with modern instruments!)  I've listened to samples of both that disc and the first disc in the cycle he started and it's toss up between those two right now.  I like the sound of the instrument better on the second, but I like the pieces better on the first disc, I think.  Decisions, decisions...

  Yeah, know what you mean. Still, if I was going to be doing sampling, I would go for a disk that had some variety to the content. There will come a day in future when, if you want to, you can buy that whole box at one whack. However, my 15 years of experience buying period instrument recordings tells me that when these are gone, they're gone, unless I want to pay $100/disk for them. Unlike modern instrument recordings, it is very rare to have a repackaging/re-release every 2 years.

What possible problem could there have been with Haydn?  Try this, it's all you need;

[asin]B0007AC1GO[/asin]

This is one of those rare repackagings. $20 well-spent on 3 disks.

[mc ukrneal]

  Yeah, know what you mean. Still, if I was going to be doing sampling, I would go for a disk that had some variety to the content. There will come a day in future when, if you want to, you can buy that whole box at one whack. However, my 15 years of experience buying period instrument recordings tells me that when these are gone, they're gone, unless I want to pay $100/disk for them. Unlike modern instrument recordings, it is very rare to have a repackaging/re-release every 2 years.

What possible problem could there have been with Haydn?  Try this, it's all you need;

[asin]B0007AC1GO[/asin]

This is one of those rare repackagings. $20 well-spent on 3 disks.

And for a modern piano, I'd choose something like the below (I'm not always a fan of Ax, but he is excellent here):
[asin]B00008WT4W[/asin]

[Gurn Blanston]

And for a modern piano, I'd choose something like the below (I'm not always a fan of Ax, but he is excellent here):
[asin]B00008WT4W[/asin]

Yup, I agree with that. I have this Ax Haydn;

[asin]B00000293M[/asin]

and in fact it was my first Haydn keyboard disk. Things sort of took off from there...

[Geo Dude]

  Yeah, know what you mean. Still, if I was going to be doing sampling, I would go for a disk that had some variety to the content. There will come a day in future when, if you want to, you can buy that whole box at one whack. However, my 15 years of experience buying period instrument recordings tells me that when these are gone, they're gone, unless I want to pay $100/disk for them. Unlike modern instrument recordings, it is very rare to have a repackaging/re-release every 2 years.

What possible problem could there have been with Haydn?  Try this, it's all you need;

[asin]B0007AC1GO[/asin]

This is one of those rare repackagings. $20 well-spent on 3 disks.

You raise a good point!  All of those individual volumes will probably eventually be available in a larger box if I want them.  The one-offs will likely not.  In any case, I chose the Sturm und Drang disc.

As for Haydn:  I've had the same problem with him in the past that I have with other classical era (Beethoven excepted) and baroque composers and, for that matter, Mendelssohn.  Beautiful music, but it didn't provide the emotional sustenance necessary to keep me interested.  That said, now that I'm out of the Sturm und Drang days of my teenage years and early twenties (Forgive the pun!) I decided I want to revisit these composers and see if I may enjoy having less drama in my music.  I feel that if worst comes to worst I'll simply gain a new lens through which to view Beethoven and Brahms and look to these eras again in the future.

That said, I do have some Haydn on hand:  I just ordered the first set of Colin Davis' London symphonies (what can I say?  It was cheap!) and I already own a disc of Baryton trios (period instrument recording), string quartets, and...a fourteen disc box set of his complete works for solo keyboard on period instruments. (It was on sale for a very low price a few years back.)

In any case, this brings up another question:  Does anyone have recommendations for period recordings of Mozart's or Haydn's late symphonies?  Mozart in particular; I'd like something to supplement my Bohm recording with.