An Apology to Forum Members

[DavidRoss]

It has come to my attention that some forum members feel uncomfortable with what they see as pointedly rude remarks by me in response to certain posts by one or two other members. I agree that these remarks have been pointed. Whether it is rude to respond to rudeness with confrontational bluntness may be open to interpretation, but some of my remarks have certainly been less than gracious.

It's easy see why others might be disturbed by these unpleasant exchanges. They disturb me, too, and even more than when I witness similar exchanges in which I'm not involved -- as the more charitably-minded can easily understand.

For what it's worth, I bear no personal enmity towards the other posters concerned. If I didn't like them and value their contributions, I would just ignore them rather than confront them at the risk of further unpleasantness in the form of personal attacks directed at me.

Therefore, I apologize to the forum in general for my part in these open exchanges. In the future, when I feel that confrontation is called for, I will either do it via PM or, when circumstances warrant, notify a moderator. And when the incident involves a third party, as sometimes happens, I will PM him or her as well.

In this way I hope to spare forum members at large any further unpleasantness arising from difficult exchanges between me and other posters. I ask your forgiveness for my past transgressions of civility and, insofar as possible, your understanding.

[springrite]

Thank you David. Maybe more of us, me included, should do the same. We have lost members (some did come back, again, me included) this way. We should never forget that what got us together is a common love for music which in itself should be valued and treasured.

[DavidW]

As someone who has pushed posters away, it is great and enviable to see someone take the higher road before that happens.

[SonicMan46]

Thanks David for your post, a lesson for all of us to be courteous & understanding while members of this and other forums - Dave

[CaughtintheGaze]

In all honesty, fuck 'em. If they can't take a critique, they likely shouldn't be partaking in any form of adult conversation. I've seen your exchanges, and while they might be perceived as abrasive, that's simply who they are. There wasn't anything personal in them, and I find it insulting that you would seek to change your behavior because of some pussies. I truly hope you reconsider taking your posts to the private messaging.

[Gurn Blanston]

In all honesty, fuck 'em. If they can't take a critique, they likely shouldn't be partaking in any form of adult conversation. I've seen your exchanges, and while they might be perceived as abrasive, that's simply who they are. There wasn't anything personal in them, and I find it insulting that you would seek to change your behavior because of some pussies. I truly hope you reconsider taking your posts to the private messaging.

And I hope the same about you, actually. This forum isn't about seeing how rude or abrasive one can be without recrimination. It's about discussing classical music in a civil way. There are places that are totally unmoderated and one can treat others in any way one feels like. Those days on this forum are long gone. Of course, you already know this too.

[mc ukrneal]

In all honesty, fuck 'em. If they can't take a critique, they likely shouldn't be partaking in any form of adult conversation. I've seen your exchanges, and while they might be perceived as abrasive, that's simply who they are. There wasn't anything personal in them, and I find it insulting that you would seek to change your behavior because of some pussies. I truly hope you reconsider taking your posts to the private messaging.

Do you realize how you appear to be with these posts? Do you care?

[Mirror Image]

I'm no stranger to animosity myself, Dave, and I know we've had quite a few unpleasant exchanges in the past. I've actually apologized to you, but you and I seem to be getting along a lot better now than we have in the past and I want to thank you for putting up with my moronic, insensitive remarks. This is quite a noble thing you've done here and I sincerely accept your apology even though I wasn't mad or upset with you. I've tried my best to be civil with some members here however and with some it has been like pulling teeth, but I soldier on in hopes that we'll find some common ground.

All the best to you my friend.

[CaughtintheGaze]

Do you realize how you appear to be with these posts? Do you care?

How do I appear?

[Gold Knight]

@ David Ross, As a relative newcomer to both this forum and classical music, I just wanted to thank you for your obviously heart-felt post/apology. Although I have never been involved--at least on this forum--in any kind of hostile, unpleasant exchanges with either you or any of my other GMFG fellow members, I really do appreciate your courage in saying what you did. As a result, I feel more confident in posting my own observations and opinions w/o having to worry about being lambasted or mocked by those members--and I'm sure there are many of them--who are far more experienced in and knowledgeable of the classical music field.
Thanks again.

[mc ukrneal]

How do I appear?

Do I really have to tell you? Do you not see, that at the very least, you are being rude?

My apologies to others for perhaps derailing the thread a hair. I also feel it is very much in line with what it is discussing. I'll be happy to move off-line if that would better serve the conversation.

[CaughtintheGaze]

Do I really have to tell you? Do you not see, that at the very least, you are being rude?

My apologies to others for perhaps derailing the thread a hair. I also feel it is very much in line with what it is discussing. I'll be happy to move off-line if that would better serve the conversation.

Well you don't have to tell me, but that won't help us along in the conversation if you're keeping things hidden.

In what way(s) have I been rude?

[mc ukrneal]

Well you don't have to tell me, but that won't help us along in the conversation if you're keeping things hidden.

In what way(s) have I been rude?

Re-read your first sentence in your first post of this thread. This is what David refers to as a 'trangsgression of civility' in his post.

[CaughtintheGaze]

Re-read your first sentence in your first post of this thread. This is what David refers to as a 'trangsgression of civility' in his post.

That's one way to look at it, for sure, but if you look at the whole of my post the rest of my position is somewhat extrapolated.

[mc ukrneal]

That's one way to look at it, for sure, but if you look at the whole of my post the rest of my position is somewhat extrapolated.

This is not a question of context. You admit it is rude and then try to rationalize it. The rest of the post does not take the sting away from the start.

[CaughtintheGaze]

This is not a question of context. You admit it is rude and then try to rationalize it. The rest of the post does not take the sting away from the start.

Interesting how you attribute something to me which I didn't assent to, but perhaps that is simply your way of discourse.

[mc ukrneal]

Interesting how you attribute something to me which I didn't assent to, but perhaps that is simply your way of discourse.

You amaze me. You wrote. "That is one way to look at it." Full stop. And, to be quite honest, I don't see how anyone can take the phrase eff em as anything but rude. That sadly, appears to be your way of discourse.

[CaughtintheGaze]

You amaze me. You wrote. "That is one way to look at it." Full stop. And, to be quite honest, I don't see how anyone can take the phrase eff em as anything but rude. That sadly, appears to be your way of discourse.

Yes, I said that, but I didn't say it was the way that I looked it. Merely agreeing that your perspective is one among many. I'd prefer this to be an honest discussion. I'd hope you'd desire the same thing.

[mahler10th]

...and with some it has been like pulling teeth, but I soldier on in hopes that we'll find some common ground....

***checks existence of actual molars***   

Your post tacitly reminds us of some basic human truths expressed through a humble soul, David. 
I have learned many things through some debate on GMG.  It is necessary to be challenged, it enriches and sharpens listening and preferences, and I've changed my mind on many things through being accosted by opinions in the corridors of GMG.  I once received a stinging response to something I said about Boulez Mahler 3, but in the sting were some near auditory DNA structures designed for a better adjustment of my ears to what I was hearing.  Also, if everyone would just agree with me  that atonal music is the biggest heap of *&$% ever to come out of Vienna, I wouldn't have to keep going back to it to see if I suddenly like it.   
Thanks for your post David, there is nothing more honourable than an honest fellow.

[Mirror Image]

***checks existence of actual molars***   

Your post tacitly reminds us of some basic human truths expressed through a humble soul, David. 
I have learned many things through some debate on GMG.  It is necessary to be challenged, it enriches and sharpens listening and preferences, and I've changed my mind on many things through being accosted by opinions in the corridors of GMG.  I once received a stinging response to something I said about Boulez Mahler 3, but in the sting were some near auditory DNA structures designed for a better adjustment of my ears to what I was hearing.  Also, if everyone would just agree with me  that atonal music is the biggest heap of *&$% ever to come out of Vienna, I wouldn't have to keep going back to it to see if I suddenly like it.   
Thanks for your post David, there is nothing more honourable than an honest fellow.

Yeah, you know, it's always a good thing to get into a debate with somebody about something you feel pretty adamant about. I still can't get on with a lot of atonal music, but Alban Berg has been this music's saving grace for me because I hear so much genuine honesty and heart-wrenching emotion in his music that I cannot just turn my head..err...ears the other way. I very much shared your position that this stuff was noise, but thankfully I found a lot of good music just through trial and error. All of this being said, I understand your point and agree, if we aren't challenged from time to time, then things could get quite stale and we become stagnated as listeners as a result of this purely going with the flow type of mentality. We all need to come to some bumps in the road so we can learn and grow from these types of exchanges with members here.