Help!

[Michel]

As some of you will know, my love for classical music has been up and down of late. However, Mahler's 10th last night utterly reignited it for me.

I am therefore looking to expand my collection yet further but I wanted your advice. What does everyone think, in looking at my spreadsheet linked below of my collection, that I ought to rush out and purchase?

Cheers

http://www.mediafire.com/?6ednxqtzxgq

[bhodges]

Well, I'll bite (although you probably know what I'm going to recommend  ).  This assumes that you'd like more breadth in your collection, which I always think is a good thing, but you should ask yourself what your criteria are for building on what you have.

How about more Janáček and Prokofiev, especially the operas?  And I don't see a single CD by Britten ( ), Carter, Ives, Martinů, Xenakis or Zemlinsky, each of whom has huge outputs well worth exploring.  And their bodies of work are usually so varied that if you've just heard a single work and didn't like it, you owe it to yourself to sample some others. 

You never know when you'll hear something for the first time, love it, and then think, "Man, I could have been listening to that all along." 

--Bruce

[George]

I see a number of my favorites are not represented.

Some suggestions:

Chopin: Nocturnes (Arrau), Ballades (Rubinstein) and Preludes (Argerich)

Beethoven: Symphonies (Szell or HvK '63), Sonatas (Annie Fischer or Gulda)

Debussy: Preludes (Gieseking on VAI or Zimerman if modern sound is needed)

Rachmaninov: PC 2 and 3 (Janis/Dorati) or PC 2, Richter (the one on DG coupled with Prokofiev PC 5)   

[Michel]

I see a number of my favorites are not represented.

Some suggestions:

Chopin: Nocturnes (Arrau), Ballades (Rubinstein) and Preludes (Argerich)

Beethoven: Symphonies (Szell or HvK '63), Sonatas (Annie Fischer or Gulda)

Debussy: Preludes (Gieseking on VAI or Zimerman if modern sound is needed)

Rachmaninov: PC 2 and 3 (Janis/Dorati) or PC 2, Richter (the one on DG coupled with Prokofiev PC 5)   

You are blind, the HvK 63 is in there, as are Ballades by Rubinstein.

[George]

You are blind, the HvK 63 is in there, as are Ballades by Rubinstein.

I looked in the composer column and saw no Chopin or Beethoven. I guess I don't know how to read a spreadsheet. 

[Larry Rinkel]

I looked in the composer column and saw no Chopin or Beethoven. I guess I don't know how to read a spreadsheet. 

Unless Michel updated the document since your last post, both composers are there.

[George]

I looked in the composer column and saw no Chopin or Beethoven. I guess I don't know how to read a spreadsheet. 

Yes, I see them now. Previously I hadn't scrolled up. 

[Larry Rinkel]

This is a pretty good, no-nonsense core collection. From my point-of-view the most obvious gaps are these:

1) No Bach vocal music - cantatas, the two Passions, and the B minor mass.
2) No Mozart operas.
3) No Schumann Lieder (the Dichterliebe is wonderful).
4) No Debussy other than Pelleas.

As I don't know if these omissions are intentional or adventitious, I'll refrain from suggesting recordings until you respond.

[Greta]

Gosh, I can think of tons of things...but what era or type are you interested in? I mean, the schools I don't see, I don't know if you are interested to branch out to?

I do see Messiaen, first of all, you NEED Turangalila and La Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur Jésus-Christ. And then you know what else I 'm going to recommend, the 2nd Viennese, way much more mid 20th c., and then contemporary guys.

Are you missing the As? Because if not, you need some John Adams. Thomas Ades is another fun A.

And Malcolm Arnold, also a great A, and then more of the turn of the century Englishmen too, Elgar's symphonies, Enigma, you have no Vaughan Williams, so his symphonies too. I could go on....and on...

The only Kodaly you have is on the Janacek CD, you need the Hary Janos Suite and Dances of Galanta for sure...man, you have the Scriabin sonatas, but not Le Poeme de Extase and Promentheus, those are fantastic.

Too many to name! Ligeti, Lutoslawski...and look at the Scandanavian/Finnish composer thread because there are almost none in your list. Rautavaara, maybe Allan Pettersson, Franz Berwald. And you have the Sibelius symphonies a couple of times, but NO tone poems!  That is just as important for him, really key works you would love if you're into the symphonies.

Have fun on the journey! 

[Michel]

This is a pretty good, no-nonsense core collection. From my point-of-view the most obvious gaps are these:

1) No Bach vocal music - cantatas, the two Passions, and the B minor mass.
2) No Mozart operas.
3) No Schumann Lieder (the Dichterliebe is wonderful).
4) No Debussy other than Pelleas.

As I don't know if these omissions are intentional or adventitious, I'll refrain from suggesting recordings until you respond.

Thanks Larry, I suppose they are intentional.

Certainly in Debussy's case, I dislike Pelleas so much I've not really ventured beyond it. Admittedly I do like La Mer and some his piano music I've heard, but not the kind of thing when you get in waves of excitement that you must go out and buy things... Bu has Bruce said, these things often warrant persistence to go and explore some more of them.

Bach is not intentional but partly not knowing where to start. I like everything I've heard that he has produced a great deal, so would love recommendations on that front.

Schumann lieder, too, I would be greatly interesting in. I saw a box set of Fischer-Dieskau not so long ago and nearly go it, so would warmly receive any recs there.

In thinking about older music, I once heard some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard by Monteverdi, which seemed to be a small group of female singers with some light accompaniment. It was on the radio and I can't for the life of me remember what it was - can anyone help? THAT would be top of my list!

[Michel]

Gosh, I can think of tons of things...but what era or type are you interested in? I mean, the schools I don't see, I don't know if you are interested to branch out to?

I do see Messiaen, first of all, you NEED Turangalila and La Transfiguration de Notre Seigneur Jésus-Christ. And then you know what else I 'm going to recommend, the 2nd Viennese, way much more mid 20th c., and then contemporary guys.

Are you missing the As? Because if not, you need some John Adams. Thomas Ades is another fun A.

And Malcolm Arnold, also a great A, and then more of the turn of the century Englishmen too, Elgar's symphonies, Enigma, you have no Vaughan Williams, so his symphonies too. I could go on....and on...

The only Kodaly you have is on the Janacek CD, you need the Hary Janos Suite and Dances of Galanta for sure...man, you have the Scriabin sonatas, but not Le Poeme de Extase and Promentheus, those are fantastic.

Too many to name! Ligeti, Lutoslawski...and look at the Scandanavian/Finnish composer thread because there are almost none in your list. Rautavaara, maybe Allan Pettersson, Franz Berwald. And you have the Sibelius symphonies a couple of times, but NO tone poems!  That is just as important for him, really key works you would love if you're into the symphonies.

Have fun on the journey! 

I struggle tremendously with a-tonal stuff, though I do like Quartet till the end of time a lot! I get nervous, but thanks for your recs. I have always had real problems with Elgar and haven't much been moved by Vaughn Williams. I suppose I am mainly looking for more romantic stuff at this point, but more than branching out forward in time, I think I'd like to branch out by going backward...

[Larry Rinkel]

Thanks Larry, I suppose they are intentional.

Certainly in Debussy's case, I dislike Pelleas so much I've not really ventured beyond it. Admittedly I do like La Mer and some his piano music I've heard, but not the kind of thing when you get in waves of excitement that you must go out and buy things... Bu has Bruce said, these things often warrant persistence to go and explore some more of them.

Bach is not intentional but partly not knowing where to start. I like everything I've heard that he has produced a great deal, so would love recommendations on that front.

Schumann lieder, too, I would be greatly interesting in. I saw a box set of Fischer-Dieskau not so long ago and nearly go it, so would warmly receive any recs there.

In thinking about older music, I once heard some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard by Monteverdi, which seemed to be a small group of female singers with some light accompaniment. It was on the radio and I can't for the life of me remember what it was - can anyone help? THAT would be top of my list!

You are probably thinking of some Monteverdi madrigals. Great stuff, and many recordings available.

[M forever]

If you want "romantic" stuff, you most definitely need the box of Strauss' tone poems with Staatskapelle Dresden/Kempe, one of the most essential sets of recordings of orchestral music:




Plus among the many great recordings of Strauss tone poems which Sinopoli made, these two are really outstanding, the excitingly "modern" sounding readings of Also sprach Zarathustra and Tod und Verklärung with New York Philharmonic, and Ein Heldenleben with the Staatskapelle Dresden, one of the most sheerly beautifully played and amazingly sounding recordings of anything I have ever heard:






A personal all time favorite of mine is this album of Dvořák's wonderful fairy tale tone poems with the Czech Philharmonic, this is as good as it gets in terms of musical and highly "idiomatic" orchestral playing. The sound of the orchestra is just incredibly beautiful, and recorded very well here:





Giulini mde a number of recordings which I consider timeless classics, among them Mahler 9 with the Chicago Symphony (but make sure you get the pictured edition, not the earlier one on DG Galleria, that had some transfer problems):



Das Lied von der Erde with Fassbaender/Araiza/Berliner Philharmoniker:



His phenomenal recordings of the Bruckner symphonies 7-9 with the Wiener Philharmoniker (pictured here only the 9th):




And this marvelous performance of the Eroica with the Los Angeles Philharmonic:




And I think everyone should also have these very special live recordings of Mahler 9 with Karajan and Bernstein conducting the Berliner Philharmoniker (though not at the same time!):






But, as Greta and bhodges have already pointed out, you should definitely explore more 20th century. Some of the music may not immediately speak to you, but you will not regret opening up these paths for you. But where to start? There is so much good stuff. How about this:



There is also a wonderful recording in which the composer himself conducts the Berliner Philharmoniker in the 3rd symphony (on Philip), but it is unfortunately very hard to find. In any case, I find Lutosławski's music extremely fascinating and really very "listenable". His early Concerto for Orchestra may be a little bit easier to get into and is included in this great disc:




I also love to listen to Messiaen, his sound world is very interesting and fascinating to listen to. This is a favorite of mine, among many others:




To round this off, here are two of my favorite recordings of "classical" music, great pieces in performances which I think just totally "nail" them. Breathtakingly musical and highly virtuso and eloquent music making:




And an IMO nearly "ideal" Don Giovanni in a very intimate, musical theater rather than grand opera setting (this recording is also available in a box with the other two da Ponte operas):

[Rabin_Fan]

M-Forever - I also have the Sinopoli's R Strauss Josephs Legende DG recording. That is a great piece & CD as well. Any comments on this one? Not many JL around though Ivan Fischer's has come out on Channel Classics.

[Bonehelm]

I strongly recommend Otto Klemperer's Song of the Earth on EMI. It's an old ADD recording yes, but the interpretations are ever so exciting/deep.

[not edward]

To clarify one point: I'd heartily second M forever's recommendation of Lutoslawski's recording of his 3rd symphony, but note that it is easily available on this superlative 2CD set:



This set also includes Witold Rowicki's recording of the Concerto for Orchestra (my personal favourite, though I've not heard Dohnanyi). Buy with confidence.

[M forever]

M-Forever - I also have the Sinopoli's R Strauss Josephs Legende DG recording. That is a great piece & CD as well. Any comments on this one? Not many JL around though Ivan Fischer's has come out on Channel Classics.

I have it, but I haven't listened to it yet.

To clarify one point: I'd heartily second M forever's recommendation of Lutoslawski's recording of his 3rd symphony, but note that it is easily available on this superlative 2CD set:



This set also includes Witold Rowicki's recording of the Concerto for Orchestra (my personal favourite, though I've not heard Dohnanyi). Buy with confidence.

Oh, great, I didn't know that and had looked for the recording of the 3rd (which was originally on a single CD with Les espaces with DFD) in vain for a while, I couldn't even find the listing anywhere. I heard it because a friend in Berlin had it, but somehow, I failed to copy buy the CD, so I will order this 2fer immediately. Salonen's LA recording is very good and has the bonus of being coupled with the 4th, but the composer's own BP recording is definitely better, mostly because of the orchestra which combines "modernistic" precision with the patented deep BP sound. Not that the LAP doesn't have a really good sound, too, they certainly do. But the BP just sounds several clicks better in this music and belies the cliché that "modern music" can't also sound very "sensual". This, and the highly interesting musical structures WL came up with makes for really great listening, really a good way to get into some more "modern" music.

[Que]

As some of you will know, my love for classical music has been up and down of late. However, Mahler's 10th last night utterly reignited it for me.

I am therefore looking to expand my collection yet further but I wanted your advice. What does everyone think, in looking at my spreadsheet linked below of my collection, that I ought to rush out and purchase?

Cheers

http://www.mediafire.com/?6ednxqtzxgq

I looked at your list and had some ideas about it, but didn't post until I was reminded of your request in the purchases thread.

Your interest in classical music has been up and down - you've mentioned that before. I've been there myself many times, especially in the beginning. I personally noticed two causes for this. There were episodes in my life in which it was difficult to connect to the music that I listened before - it didn't meet my emotional needs of the moment, which had changed. Another thing is that I sometimes just got "stuck", caused by a kind of "listening fatigue", caused by to much of the same kind of music and wanting something else but not knowing what.

My impression of your list is that there is that there is much emphasis on (late) Romantic music and opera. I think the solution is to explore some other avenues to balance your collection, so that it meets different needs and maybe change in taste. Please ignore all suggestions above to buy more of the same! (There is plenty of time to do that later... )

IMO you figured all this out yourself, judging for your latest purchases of Bach and Händel chamber music and Monteverdi. Indeed Baroque offers a perfect antidote/counterweight to listening to Bruckner, Mahler, Verdi & Wagner. But it's obvious that many don't need that - I do.

In terms of periods Baroque and the Classical are underrepresented. Your list gives plenty of clues on what you'd like. I noticed a lot of opera and vocal music, and also chamber music, I would explore that.
So baroque: and baroque offers both vocal and chamber music. I second the suggestion to try Bach's vocal music. But don't go out and buy the St. Matthew Passion - that would be overkill - a disc of nice cantatas will do just fine! Check the Bach cantatas thread. I noticed that you have a box set with sacred music by Vivaldi - do you like that and listen to that often? There is a nice Vivaldi thread and plenty of other baroque threads. BTW: I noticed issues of pianists in our collection, do you like harpsichord music? Try some - a whole new world to discover!

Since you are into opera, you might consider exploring that: Händel's Giulio Cesare is brilliant (rec: Jacobs/HM), so is Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice (again Jacobs/HM). And there is much more (like Monteverdi).
On the subject of opera, I second the suggestion of exploring Mozart's opera's (no Böhm, no Giulini - but Jacobs, Östman, Christie).
Of the classical period in general: try more Mozart and Haydn - plenty of gorgeous vocal music and chamber music. My advice would to buy fresh and exciting: buy HIP. That did the trick for me to get interested in Baroque and Classical at all - Böhm's Mozart symphonies wouldn't get me excited about Mozart either....  )

Q

[max]

Really! Why ask for help? There's no choice except to experiment on your own and even those preferences you currently have will change with age.

Why would you need any help?

[Larry Rinkel]

Really! Why ask for help? There's no choice except to experiment on your own and even those preferences you currently have will change with age.

Why would you need any help?

For the same reason everyone here asks questions and listens to others. That's what it means to be a community.