Suggestion reguarding Giulio Cesare.

[Josquin des Prez]

I didn't know the Borg were opera fans.

That's one hot Borg you have there. Is cybernetic love admissible in their culture?

[Josquin des Prez]

What? Even those male roles that were written for female singers, like Cherubino in Le Nozze di Figaro, Octavian in Der Rosenkavalier, Orlovsky in Die Fledermaus?  And, now that I come to think of it, I'm pretty sure there are some male Handel roles that were written for female singers.

Anything that throws my suspension of disbelief out of the window and into a pool of half-starved sharks is abhorrent in my eyes. I don't know about those later examples, but the Handel one threw me off a balcony. If it was the intention of the composer to use those dreadful castrati or even female singers for male roles (including Caesar for god sake) then he is at fault for folding under the pressure of the terrible tastes of the Italians. I understand he was out to make a buck most of the times, but this was supposed to be his operatic masterpiece.

[bricon]

If it was the intention of the composer to use those dreadful castrati or even female singers for male roles (including Caesar for god sake) then he is at fault for folding under the pressure of the terrible tastes of the Italians.

Handel wrote the role of Cesare for the famous castrato, Senesino – the castrati were the superstars of the opera world in Handel's time. There are 3 castrati roles in Giulio Cesare (Cesare, Tolomeo and Nireno).

Performances of most of Handel's operas will involve some vocal compromises – they simply cannot be cast (today) as Handel intended – usually those castrati roles will be taken by male counter tenors or (female) mezzos or altos in "trouser" roles. The least successful compromise will involve transposing those castrati roles so that they can be performed by tenors or baritones; even though Handel himself was involved in such practices for some revivals.

[Lethevich]

Anything that throws my suspension of disbelief out of the window and into a pool of half-starved sharks is abhorrent in my eyes. I don't know about those later examples, but the Handel one threw me off a balcony. If it was the intention of the composer to use those dreadful castrati or even female singers for male roles (including Caesar for god sake) then he is at fault for folding under the pressure of the terrible tastes of the Italians. I understand he was out to make a buck most of the times, but this was supposed to be his operatic masterpiece.

Some are worse than others - for some reason I find Brigitte Fassbaender makes a very convincing adolescent male, and in two Carlos Kleiber productions (on DG DVD) of Der Fleidermaus and Rosenkavalier it works well. Even the Glyndebourne Giulio Cesare DVD isn't very problematic - at first Caesar seemed odd, but becomes familiar very quickly due to the good acting, and Sesto was even less of a problem. Plus the rest of the production is incredible and would be a huge shame to miss out on.

Edit: Plus, it is also helpful to not take opera 100% seriously and just enjoy the sounds and strange farsical plots. With baroque opera, it feels so... remote to me, both stylistically and emotionally, that I find it a lot easier to accept strange things in them than more recent ones.

[Harry Collier]

I like the Jacobs, but also the Marc Minkowski (with Magdalena Kozena and Anne Sophie von Otter).

[Anne]

I can't even begin to fathom how ridiculous it must look to have women play male roles on stage.

You might want to watch the DVD of Janet Baker in the role of Julius Caesar.  She is a class act.  Good acting, sings very well, has the imperious bearing of a general and her actions would not offend you.  She knows where to draw the line in her demeanor when acting as a man.

She also sings the role of Orfeo in Gluck's opera (from Glyndebourne), Orfeo ed Euridice; this opera has the most gorgeous music!  Again she sings very well, acts very well but again knows how far to go in her interpretation of Orfeo so it does not offend viewers.

I do not have a lot of tolerance for trouser roles; it depends who and how the roles are sung.

[uffeviking]

Why not be adventurous, daring, open-minded and way ahead of the old folks? Pre-order this one:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//HMD9909008-09.htm

 

[Harry Collier]

Why not be adventurous, daring, open-minded and way ahead of the old folks? Pre-order this one:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//HMD9909008-09.htm

From the write-up, it doesn't seem to be Handel's Giulio Cesare; perhaps John Adams'?

[knight66]

I would be tempted by this, but I already have the Glyndbourne production, to which I am devoted. As I have so many basic areas of the repertoire to fill, I am not duplicating DVD operas for the moment.

In Handel's time the look would have been decidedly mixed, in that the costumes would be contemporary with a toga thrown over the jacket, or a breastplate and helmet utterly at odds with the rest of the costume. We need to keep reinventing our approach otherwise the art-form becomes set in aspic and looses some of its relevence to us. But this is a debate we have thrashed out before.

It is a very odd assertion that Handel compromised his work by writing for the voices he had in mind and which we cannot emulate today. That prejudice is a personal and perhaps a modern one. Handel was a brilliant man of the theatre and he knew just what he was doing. If his taste ran towards confusing the gender roles or giving genders unexpected soundworlds, it is something to puzzle through, an enrichment rather than an aberration.

Mike

[Josquin des Prez]

If his taste ran towards confusing the gender roles or giving genders unexpected soundworlds, it is something to puzzle through, an enrichment rather than an aberration.

I think you are giving Handel too much credit. He may have been a genius, but he had no scruples sacrificing his artistry for profit, and didn't mind submitting to the questionable tastes of his day (from what i gathered it seems the use of castrati supplanted traditional male voices starting from 1680, so it's not like it's always been there). There's no wonder Bach gave the entire genre a miss (despise his relentless determination in mastering every form known to him, including secular ones), he was probably appalled by it.

[uffeviking]

but he had no scruples sacrificing his artistry for profit, and didn't mind submitting to the questionable tastes of his day

I know you are ref. to Handel, but since you are interested in a DVD of this certain opera your quote could be applied to the stage director, who also didn't mind submitting to the tastes of his day: The present! No castrati and Cesare in a contemporary street suit. Would you buy this DVD?

[knight66]

I give too much credit to Handel? Of course he had an eye to the business side of things, that does not mean he was prepared to take on practices that he did not think he could make work artistically. The music has lasted and is now being properly explored. It seems to be your own misgivings, not much shared here abouts, that give you the problem, it does not seem to be a problem to most of the rest of us.

Mike

[JoshLilly]

All this would be a moot point if we get some volunteers to be the new wave of 21st century castrati. New recordings of old operas would result. Everyone would be happy. Right?

[uffeviking]

You'd be the first in line of volunteers?    0:)

[JoshLilly]

I'd volunteer
To quit my spheres
instead of you in a minute or two....

but I'm going to be somewhere else that day.

[knight66]

All this would be a moot point if we get some volunteers to be the new wave of 21st century castrati. New recordings of old operas would result. Everyone would be happy. Right?

Well, almost everybody.

Mike

[JoshLilly]

Well the almost-everybodies would become operatic superstars for 18th century repertoire.

[Anne]

Well the almost-everybodies would become operatic superstars for 18th century repertoire.

Sometimes the price of fame is just too much!

[knight66]

I know Anne, that is why I decided on remaining in my obscurity.

Mike

[beclemund]

I think one of the great things about recordings is that looks aren't really a consideration.  Imagine they look however you like (also works with Pavarotti recordings).  On the Glydebourne DVD, I find Sarah Connolly and Andrea Kirchschlager make fairly convincing males.

I have to agree here, the acting and costumes in the Glyndebourne set are just about as perfect as you can get. But I do not have any issue with trouser roles, so I am biased in the other direction.