The Bach Cantatas

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Another soprano aria, another otherworldly experience. Or so it seems, anyway. No trivializing intended but it sure seems the soprano gets the lion's share of the prized singing. Or perhaps I'm just biased.

This time it's the aria Jesu, deine Gnadenblicke from the Ascension Oratorio, BWV 11. (Parameter-wise this work is more like a cantata, though. It's short).

Along these lines I found this from earlier in the thread:

The soprano aria in 127 with oboe obbligato and pizzicato strings must be one of Bach's greatest.

The soprano again. The evidence is mounting.

[Oldnslow]

Big box set of Gardiner's cantatas on SGD  (56CDs) now available at Presto Classical......

[Mandryka]

Another soprano aria, another otherworldly experience. Or so it seems, anyway. No trivializing intended but it sure seems the soprano gets the lion's share of the prized singing. Or perhaps I'm just biased.

This time it's the aria Jesu, deine Gnadenblicke from the Ascension Oratorio, BWV 11. (Parameter-wise this work is more like a cantata, though. It's short).

Along these lines I found this from earlier in the thread:

The soprano again. The evidence is mounting.

When you brought up this cantata I knew at the back of my mind that there was a recording of it that was special, but I was racking my brains to remember which one it was. Obvious really -- I just played it again for the first time in years and I think it's absolutely fabulous.



But while searching for it I fell on Suzuki's, which I thought was really magical in the aria Jesu, deine Gnadenblicke because of the squillo in the voice of the singer (Yukari Nonoshita maybe).

[Octave]

Just reposting Ammar's excellent find here, since I'd been wishing aloud for it just a couple days ago.  This makes my season!

Finally 



http://www.amazon.it/Cantate-Richter/dp/B00EYPQ4SY/

I call this a SDCB given the current Amazon MP rate for the original set 

[Dancing Divertimentian]

When you brought up this cantata I knew at the back of my mind that there was a recording of it that was special, but I was racking my brains to remember which one it was. Obvious really -- I just played it again for the first time in years and I think it's absolutely fabulous.

Yes, and the Ascension opens well, too. Great opening chorus which sets the table for the rest of the piece.

But while searching for it I fell on Suzuki's, which I thought was really magical in the aria Jesu, deine Gnadenblicke because of the squillo in the voice of the singer (Yukari Nonoshita maybe).

I'm slowly beginning to develop an appreciation for Suzuki. I'm at four volumes now and so far I haven't been let down.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

When it rains it pours...and right now it's raining sopranos. More specifically, soprano arias.

Another stunner shows up in bwv 105, the aria Wie zittern und wanken from the Gardiner disc below. Bach must've had zero misgivings about his stash of boy sopranos, what with so many show-stopping arias he handed them.

Although this aria could've potentially been even better had the sound been better. This is a "pilgrimage" disc, recorded live, and the soprano is somewhat too distantly miked. An earlier soprano aria (in an earlier cantata) suffers from the same affliction.

It isn't a deal-breaker by any means as soprano Katharine Fuge sings with utmost care and finesse - and gorgeous tone - but it'd be nice to hear the aria under ideal conditions. Although Fuge is certainly "on" so gotta give credit to everyone involved, here.

So I guess we get to see both faces of the "pilgrimage", here: the exquisite (the execution of the singing) along with the hick-ups (the sonic glitch). Oh well, if nothing else the experience is memorable.

(No issues about the sound elsewhere, though).




[asin]B00004Z4XW[/asin]

[knight66]

For the ideal, find Arleen Auger in that aria.

Mike

[Octave]

DD et al, I am loving this revisitation of key moments.  It's making me reach compulsively for the examples I have at hand.

For the ideal, find Arleen Auger in that aria. [BWV105, Wie zittern und wanken]

Is that (Auger) with Rilling/Hanssler/Vol. ~33, Mike?  The paper booklets in that stand-alone set don't mention personnel, and I can't access the ROM for the moment. 

[knight66]

I am pretty sure that is right. I have it on a disc of Auger performances drawn from the Rilling set. I am not at home now, so can't check. I have about 16 discs from the Rilling Bach, but not that cantata.

Mike

[DavidW]

Is that (Auger) with Rilling/Hanssler/Vol. ~33, Mike?  The paper booklets in that stand-alone set don't mention personnel, and I can't access the ROM for the moment.

That sounds about right because they are in order of bwv #, and I just set out this morning volume 44 with Sleepers Awake! which is bwv 140 (to listen to when I get home this evening).  And there are 3-4 cantatas per cd.

[Mandryka]

For the ideal, find Arleen Auger in that aria.

Mike

I don't agree Mike.

Just think about what we're dealing with here, this is disturbing music, very, with not an iota of solace

How tremble and waver
the sinners' thoughts
while they bring accusations against each other
and on the other hand dare to make excuses for themselves.
In this way a troubled conscience
is torn apart through its own torments.

To my mind Rilling with Auger are far too comforting. I prefer Harnoncourt and his boy -- I think it's a good example to show how kids can find a truth which eludes grown ups. Boys are, after all, always "bring<ing> accusations against each other" and  "mak<ing>excuses for themselves".

Koopman's pretty good too.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

For the ideal, find Arleen Auger in that aria.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. Went hunting and actually found a YouTube video of the Auger/Rilling. It is indeed gorgeous, but perhaps a touch on the "operatic" side for my taste. Certainly there's nothing to fault interpretively, however. (Begins at about the 8:15 mark):


http://www.youtube.com/v/nXP2OFcgIuo

I don't agree Mike.

...this is disturbing music, very, with not an iota of solace.

I prefer Harnoncourt and his boy -- I think it's a good example to show how kids can find a truth which eludes grown ups. 

I also found Harnoncourt's boy soprano on YouTube. It certainly has its interesting moments but trying isolate the "disturbing" and the "truth" from all the approximations of pitch isn't so easy. I can do without perfection but grating is another story, no matter its claims to "authenticity" (anyway, just sayin' ). (Begins at the 6:44 mark):


http://www.youtube.com/v/01nqb42y1po




Sadly I can't find the Gardiner on YouTube. Here's Herreweghe's first recording (on Virgin) for kicks. Barbara Schlick is a pretty good middle-ground between Auger and Harnoncourt's boy. She's also more subtle than Katharine for Gardiner, but that's no knock. (Begins at 6:15):


http://www.youtube.com/v/zqx6ATXXTNI

[Parsifal]

Despite all the obsessing about soprano Arias, I often find myself most attracted to Bach's writing for tenor voice.  Yesterday I listened to BWV 13 (Rilling) and found the opening aria for tenor very interesting.

[Mandryka]

Thanks, Mike. Went hunting and actually found a YouTube video of the Auger/Rilling. It is indeed gorgeous, but perhaps a touch on the "operatic" side for my taste. Certainly there's nothing to fault interpretively, however. (Begins at about the 8:15 mark):


http://www.youtube.com/v/nXP2OFcgIuo



I also found Harnoncourt's boy soprano on YouTube. It certainly has its interesting moments but trying isolate the "disturbing" and the "truth" from all the approximations of pitch isn't so easy. I can do without perfection but grating is another story, no matter its claims to "authenticity" (anyway, just sayin' ). (Begins at the 6:44 mark):


http://www.youtube.com/v/01nqb42y1po




Sadly I can't find the Gardiner on YouTube. Here's Herreweghe's first recording (on Virgin) for kicks. Barbara Schlick is a pretty good middle-ground between Auger and Harnoncourt's boy. She's also more subtle than Katharine for Gardiner, but that's no knock. (Begins at 6:15):


http://www.youtube.com/v/zqx6ATXXTNI

But grating's a good thing, and Rilling and Auger's consolation is a bad thing. Just look at the poem!!!

Where I'm coming from is this: prima le parole

[Parsifal]

But grating's a good thing, and Rilling and Auger's consolation is a bad thing. Just look at the poem!!!

Where I'm coming from is this: prima le parole

All of the emphasis on the voice --- Auger vs a chorister --- is ignoring the real difference between the performance.  Harnoncourt found the right tempo, which is much faster than Rillings and guides the vocalist to a more declamatory vocal style.  Rilling's much slower tempo leads to a more contemplative vocal style.  If you had given Auger to Harnoncourt he would have produced the same effect with her as he did with the chorister, I think.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Despite all the obsessing about soprano Arias....[snip]

I didn't choose the soprano arias to single out. They singled themselves out after I hit the play button on my CD player. It's called random chance. 

I often find myself most attracted to Bach's writing for tenor voice.  Yesterday I listened to BWV 13 (Rilling) and found the opening aria for tenor very interesting.

Are the tenors not getting enough love from me? I apologize. 

[Mandryka]

All of the emphasis on the voice --- Auger vs a chorister --- is ignoring the real difference between the performance.  Harnoncourt found the right tempo, which is much faster than Rillings and guides the vocalist to a more declamatory vocal style.  Rilling's much slower tempo leads to a more contemplative vocal style.  If you had given Auger to Harnoncourt he would have produced the same effect with her as he did with the chorister.

You may be right, though I do feel a sort of hardness, bitterness, nastiness, in the boy's voice which I think is right here. I'm not sure that's just the tempo. Maybe those aren't the right words - some sort of bad emotion. The other one I like, Koopman, is also fast.

By the way, that tenor aria in Bwv 13, Leusink is pretty inspired in it I think. I'll check Rilling tomorrow.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

But grating's a good thing, and Rilling and Auger's consolation is a bad thing. Just look at the poem!!!

Are you saying it's grating or nothing in this aria?

Where I'm coming from is this: prima le parole

Certainly there's a cumulative effect from all forces. Not one over the other. Else there'd just be recitation, here.

[Parsifal]

You may be right, though I do feel a sort of hardness, bitterness, nastiness, in the boy's voice which I think is right here. I'm not sure that's just the tempo. Maybe those aren't the right words - some sort of bad emotion. The other one I like, Koopman, is also fast.

I hear a huge difference in the mood of the two performances before the soprano even opens his or her mouth.

If only that Harnoncourt set wasn't plagued by the choristers and the male altos, it would be a miracle.  (Would that Paul Esswood had never been born.)

[knight66]

I do understand the point being made about the Rilling/Auger performance. But I still turn to it when I hear that music in my head. Probably brainwashed.

Mike