Elliott Carter, 1908-2012

[snyprrr]

Been diving into Carter's Symphonia and blown away, truly stunned over what I'm hearing. My wife has to peel me off the floor!

The 'Boulez' Symphony!

[snyprrr]

What would be y'alls 5 LEAST FAVOURITE CARTER? Not counting trifles and such... and sure, balance it with a Top5 if you like. I'd have to sit out at the moment as Carter has a ways to go in the 'q' before I get to him- it's just that I'm rating all Carter about the same on my meter, so, I can't really pick anything- but I do take a lot of delight in String Quartet No.1 (Nonesuch).

Carter's so dense and yadda yadda - you know?- (I know, the Late Works- I'm up to the Violin Concerto (next in 'q')- ok- uh... nevermind... I get the feeling everyone's totally given over to the new stuff (post-VC). I'm still just thinking it's "Grampy Carter" writing music- (yes, I know- the '80s poisoned me that way?).

I really liked the Clarinet and Oboe Concertos. There. Vindicated!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

What would be y'alls 5 LEAST FAVOURITE CARTER? Not counting trifles and such

The only Carter CD I got rid of was the "Quintets and Voices" one on Mode. It had two piano quintets (one for the usual combo and the other for piano + winds), Syringa, and a few other things. For whatever reason, I didn't like any of it. It was the usual Carter procedures going on (instruments arguing with each other for 15 minutes, etc.), but the results sounded trivial and did not encourage me to keep coming back. I still can't figure out why I was so lukewarm to this disc when most of it was similar to the Carter stuff I already liked. And I doubt the performers (Arditti 4tet et al.) were to blame.

[CRCulver]

What would be y'alls 5 LEAST FAVOURITE CARTER?

I can't name five full pieces that I don't like, but I was very disappointed by What Next? (why do composers keep working with Paul Griffiths? He's an awful librettist) and In Sleep, In Thunder (too much of a retread of A Mirror on Which to Dwell).

And of course when I think of myself as a Carter fan and occasionally put his music on, I leave out everything from before 1948, as I'm sure many other people here do.

[not edward]

I can't name five full pieces that I don't like, but I was very disappointed by What Next? (why do composers keep working with Paul Griffiths? He's an awful librettist) and In Sleep, In Thunder (too much of a retread of A Mirror on Which to Dwell).

And of course when I think of myself as a Carter fan and occasionally put his music on, I leave out everything from before 1948, as I'm sure many other people here do.

Yeah, I wasn't any too impressed by What Next? and its crappy libretto either. And for some reason, some of the works from the early '80s have never really done much for me (Penthode and the 4th quartet, for example).

I think the piano sonata would be the one pre-1948 piece I'd include; it's definitely a prototype in some ways for the cello sonata and what came after.

[snyprrr]

The only Carter CD I got rid of was the "Quintets and Voices" one on Mode. It had two piano quintets (one for the usual combo and the other for piano + winds), Syringa, and a few other things. For whatever reason, I didn't like any of it. It was the usual Carter procedures going on (instruments arguing with each other for 15 minutes, etc.), but the results sounded trivial and did not encourage me to keep coming back. I still can't figure out why I was so lukewarm to this disc when most of it was similar to the Carter stuff I already liked. And I doubt the performers (Arditti 4tet et al.) were to blame.

I was kind of hinting around at the Piano Quintet- everyone calling it quite arid and chalk dust dry.

I can't name five full pieces that I don't like, but I was very disappointed by What Next? (why do composers keep working with Paul Griffiths? He's an awful librettist) and In Sleep, In Thunder (too much of a retread of A Mirror on Which to Dwell).

And of course when I think of myself as a Carter fan and occasionally put his music on, I leave out everything from before 1948, as I'm sure many other people here do.

Yeah, I wasn't any too impressed by What Next? and its crappy libretto either. And for some reason, some of the works from the early '80s have never really done much for me (Penthode and the 4th quartet, for example).

I think the piano sonata would be the one pre-1948 piece I'd include; it's definitely a prototype in some ways for the cello sonata and what came after.

I actually already went through my "this sucks" phase with Carter when I finally, recently heard 'Penthode', and yes, it's just Carter at his most dense and gnarly for its own sake, but now I'm charmed by its ugliness, as I have also come around to the most hated Brass Quintet. Haven't heard Aimard's 'Night Fantasires', but I know that old Oppens recital on Music&Arts turned me off that piece.

Carter in the '80s, mm mm mm. (and late '70s)

I DO LOVE THAT 'ELEGY', THOUGH! That is actually my favourite Carter piece, but, sorry, what are ya gonna do? And, the version I like is the Arditti on Etcetera- the Mode version just doesn't give it to me like the earlier one. Play it at my funereal if there is one (which i highly doubt as I will go on to ...

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I was kind of hinting around at the Piano Quintet- everyone calling it quite arid and chalk dust dry.

That description fits both piano quintets...

I have also come around to the most hated Brass Quintet. Haven't heard Aimard's 'Night Fantasires', but I know that old Oppens recital on Music&Arts turned me off that piece.

The Brass 5tet is a different and quite interesting animal, but I'm a sucker for serious brass music. Night Fantasies is considered to be one of Carter's densest and hardest pieces, but I loved it from the start (in the other Oppens recording, on Cedille). Maybe it helped that I was suffering from insomnia at the time, as that's what the music is supposed to depict.

I forgot some dry and arid Carter that doesn't much interest me: the 8 Pieces for 4 Timpani (or should that be 4 Pieces for 8 Timpani? can't remember exactly). Hey I love percussion, but these sound like "Music Minus One"-type exercises.

[Karl Henning]

Yeah, I wasn't any too impressed by What Next? and its crappy libretto either.

Sorry to hear this, knowing Carter's more typical refinement in matters literary.

Correction:  Very sorry to hear this.

[Karl Henning]

I forgot some dry and arid Carter that doesn't much interest me: the 8 Pieces for 4 Timpani (or should that be 4 Pieces for 8 Timpani? can't remember exactly).

Seven Timpani for Seven Brides . . . .

[snyprrr]

That description fits both piano quintets...

The Brass 5tet is a different and quite interesting animal, but I'm a sucker for serious brass music. Night Fantasies is considered to be one of Carter's densest and hardest pieces, but I loved it from the start (in the other Oppens recording, on Cedille). Maybe it helped that I was suffering from insomnia at the time, as that's what the music is supposed to depict.

I forgot some dry and arid Carter that doesn't much interest me: the 8 Pieces for 4 Timpani (or should that be 4 Pieces for 8 Timpani? can't remember exactly). Hey I love percussion, but these sound like "Music Minus One"-type exercises.

What other "serious brass music" do you like? I have a weakness for that as well- a lot of those NewWorld and CRI discs... the more academically serialist the better!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

What other "serious brass music" do you like?

I don't exactly know a lot of pieces. But I like the 2 brass quintets by Holmboe, the quintet and Brass Symphony by Malcolm Arnold, and there is an interesting Hyperion disc with Simpson's brass music (the highlight for me being the Intro & Allegro on a Bass of Reger, or whatever it's called). Oh, and Eonta by Xenakis, but there's a piano in there, so it's not quite pure.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I stand corrected. I suppose I got this mixed up with the fact that some editions of that chamber works release lacked the DVD.

Ha, turns out you were right (sorta). I just got the box set, and indeed it lacks the DVD, but the cover of the box says it has the DVD. Apparently this is an ongoing problem with this set. I have just written to Naxos customer service and asked them to send it to me. 

[Leo K.]

What other "serious brass music" do you like? I have a weakness for that as well- a lot of those NewWorld and CRI discs... the more academically serialist the better!

Me too. All the way.

[bhodges]

Just got a copy of this new re-release (includes the Fifth Quartet, recorded last year), and though at this point there are (happily) other versions of these quartets - most notably the Pacifica cycle on Naxos - to my ears this holds up quite well.

[asin]B00HLUMXJI[/asin]

--Bruce

[snyprrr]

Jto my ears this holds up quite well.

--Bruce

hmmm...... ahh


          hmmm....

... had it... dated?...

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

4th Quartet fixation

Well I got the Pacifica set and have been exploring it 

Strangely enough, I've become sort of fixated on the 4th Quartet. For the last few days, I've had to listen to it every day. It's hard work, but it keeps pulling me back. There's a fascinating contrast between music that is fragmented and music that is concentrated and even mystical-sounding, like a trance state. (I see Edward above doesn't much like this 4tet. I wonder why.)

I also really dig the 3rd Quartet. Much to my surprise, as this is the one that is supposedly almost impossible to listen to, not to mention to play! I'd read about how off-putting it was, and expected to start listening and then have to give up and put it back on the shelf. But it's hard to not listen when the energy level is this high. By contrast, I find the 2nd Quartet something of a limp noodle.

It's weird how I like these supposedly impossible, hyper-complex Carter pieces at once. Ditto with Night Fantasies, which is supposed to be "forbidding" or whatever, but I liked it right off the bat.

[snyprrr]

4th Quartet fixation

Well I got the Pacifica set and have been exploring it 

Strangely enough, I've become sort of fixated on the 4th Quartet. For the last few days, I've had to listen to it every day. It's hard work, but it keeps pulling me back. There's a fascinating contrast between music that is fragmented and music that is concentrated and even mystical-sounding, like a trance state. (I see Edward above doesn't much like this 4tet. I wonder why.)

I also really dig the 3rd Quartet. Much to my surprise, as this is the one that is supposedly almost impossible to listen to, not to mention to play! I'd read about how off-putting it was, and expected to start listening and then have to give up and put it back on the shelf. But it's hard to not listen when the energy level is this high. By contrast, I find the 2nd Quartet something of a limp noodle.

It's weird how I like these supposedly impossible, hyper-complex Carter pieces at once. Ditto with Night Fantasies, which is supposed to be "forbidding" or whatever, but I liked it right off the bat.

You live in a war zone. You're used to it!

I too am gobbling up all the nasty stuff. Maybe you should try Richard Barrett's 'Dark Matter'?

[snyprrr]

I'm going to go for Aimard's NF. Any objections?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I'm going to go for Aimard's NF. Any objections?

No, but I haven't heard it. I've got Oppens on Cedille (complete piano music - a neat disc).

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Another surprise is that I like the Pacifica's 1st Quartet more than the Composers Quartet on Nonesuch, which is considered the classic by many. True, the Composers Q have a bit more intensity, but to my mind the Pacifica play more securely, in better sound, preserve the clarity of the lines better, and give stronger definition to the variations in the final movement.