Bruckner's Abbey

[Ken B]

The Amazon reviewer named "Joe" of Sarajevo wrote:

It seems odd that a simple transfer from vinyl to CD would cause the brass section to seem less than competent.  Or...?

Many thanks for the comments!

Well I've never heard the vinyl. But I have fond memories of how good the sound was on something at the time and then years later discovering, no not so much. We judge relative to what else there is at the time. So I'm skeptical, especially with RCA vinyl from the Dynagroove era.
Setting aside the comment about the vinyl he acknowledges the problem, just blames the remastering. As I say, I can't fix the blame, just note the problem.

[Daverz]

Well I've never heard the vinyl. But I have fond memories of how good the sound was on something at the time and then years later discovering, no not so much. We judge relative to what else there is at the time. So I'm skeptical, especially with RCA vinyl from the Dynagroove era.

These would have been Deutsche Harmonia Mundi pressings at the time.

[Cato]

I have discovered that the score for the performing version of the Ninth Symphony's Finale by the Samale-Phillips-Cohrs-Mazzuca Team is available for 44 Euros at this company's website:

http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/composers_sales/scorelist_eng.htm

All kinds of great stuff!

[jlaurson]

Wow. Thats my Wand. Based on comments I've read here you and I share a lot of common prefrences, so I will give the Wand another close look, especially in 8 and 9.
Bruckner overload, since I have Celi coming.

Can't get further from one another than early Wand and late Celi.

Love, love them both for exactly what they bring to Bruckner or, one might quip in Wand's case, for what he doesn't bring to Bruckner.

Just got Jochum B9, BRSO, 1955 sent to the office. Weee! But before that, more Berwald.

[Karl Henning]

Sarge, when you did your HvK-VS.-Wand tête-à-tête, how did HvK's Eighth hold up?

[Ken B]

Sarge, when you did your HvK-VS.-Wand tête-à-tête, how did HvK's Eighth hold up?

One of the best 8th symphonies, Bruckner's. 

My head to head was a rout. HvK easily. Gotta queue up my new Celi soon ...

[NJ Joe]

I am a relative newcomer to Bruckner.  Although I've owned the Jochum EMI set for several years, I've never been able to get my head around it...or get a handle on it. Granted I only listened occasionally, but this was because nothing ever really grabbed me or made me want to listen again. My listening was haphazard...I was randomly choosing symphonies and not getting anywhere.

This was very similar to my initial attempts with Mahler.

I decided to try another set and purchased the Karajan DG, deciding to start with symphony number one.  I've now listened to it three consecutive days and finally - this morning - a breakthrough! I finally got it. A masterful performance of, to my ears, a powerfully beautiful work. Stormy first movement, intense slow movement, and I was taken aback by the amazingly powerful scherzo. Wow! Intense, blazing finale. I'm going to proceed in order, and, if this symphony is any indication of what's to come, I am really looking forward to this journey.

[kishnevi]

Of the performances I have (including Jochum and Wand) Karajan is the only one who has ever gotten me to connect with any of the first three symphonies.

[Cato]

I am relative newcomer to Bruckner.  Although I've owned the Jochum EMI set for several years, I've never been able to get my head around it...or get a handle on it. Granted I only listened occasionally, but this was because nothing ever really grabbed me or made me want to listen again. My listening was haphazard...I was randomly choosing symphonies and not getting anywhere.

This was very similar to my initial attempts with Mahler.

I decide to try another set and purchased the Karajan DG, deciding to start with symphony number one.  I've now listened to it three consecutive days and finally - this morning - a breakthrough! I finally got it. A masterful performance of, to my ears, a powerfully beautiful work. Stormy first movement, intense slow movement, and I was taken aback by the amazingly powerful scherzo. Wow! Intense, blazing finale. I'm going to proceed in order, and, if this symphony is any indication of what's to come, I am really looking forward to this journey.

We welcome all into the Bruckner Universe, no matter the timing! 

I have always thought the First Symphony to be one of the greatest "Firsts" by any composer.  And yes, the journey will be something to enjoy! 

[NJ Joe]

We welcome all into the Bruckner Universe, no matter the timing! 

I have always thought the First Symphony to be one of the greatest "Firsts" by any composer.  And yes, the journey will be something to enjoy!

Thanks Cato, right now I'm thinking the same!

[NJ Joe]

Today I listened to the 4th (which I'd previously heard a few times) and was blown away.  Will be listening again shortly.  I'd say my feet are firmly planted in Karajan's Bruckner.

[Sergeant Rock]

and I was taken aback by the amazingly powerful scherzo. Wow!

The man was incapable of composing a less than superb Scherzo.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Sarge, when you did your HvK-VS.-Wand tête-à-tête, how did HvK's Eighth hold up?

Wand won that round. It was partly due to the superior (to my ears) sonics of the RCA recording; partly due to my preferring both the 1958 (Berlin/EMI) and 1988 (Vienna) performances (it's the '75 in the box).

Neither that Wand nor that Karajan are among my favorite Eighths though. Top 10 would be:

Maazel/Berlin
Maazel/SOBR
Boulez/Vienna
Schuricht/Vienna
Szell/Cleveland
Celi/Munich
Paita/Philharmonic SO
Wand/Berlin
Karajan/Berlin EMI
Tintner/Ireland

Sarge

[André]

Favourite 8ths:


Jochum Bamberger Symphoniker, 06.62
Jochum, Hamburg Phil (DGG, from '49)
Knappertsbusch Berlin (01.1951)
van Beinum, Concertgebouw, live from 06.1955 (Philips)
Wand in Cologne (RCA)
Asahina Osaka Phil (07.1994)
Celibidache MPO (live from Lisbon, a bit tauter than the official EMI disc)
Böhm WP (DGG)
Païta, National Phil
Steinberg, Boston Symphony (live)
Tennstedt in Boston or Berlin (Testament)
Schuricht WP (EMI)
Furtwängler BP (15.03.49)Maazel and the BP (EMI)
Rögner and the Brlin Radio
Haitink Amsterdam (both the '69 and '81 recordings)
Kubelik BRSO (1977, not the inferior Orfeo version from '63).

There are many other worthy versions, but they don't make it to the first rung of the ladder IMO

For the 'original' (first) version, I prefer Walter Weller and the BBC Orchestra of Wales

[NJ Joe]

Wand won that round. It was partly due to the superior (to my ears) sonics of the RCA recording; partly due to my preferring both the 1958 (Berlin/EMI) and 1988 (Vienna) performances (it's the '75 in the box).

Neither that Wand nor that Karajan are among my favorite Eighths though. Top 10 would be:

Maazel/Berlin
Maazel/SOBR
Boulez/Vienna
Schuricht/Vienna
Szell/Cleveland
Celi/Munich
Paita/Philharmonic SO
Wand/Berlin
Karajan/Berlin EMI
Tintner/Ireland

Sarge

I recently ordered this from Amazon, based on the glowing reviews it received.

[Sergeant Rock]

I recently ordered this from Amazon, based on the glowing reviews it received.

I've seen some negative reviews too so I can't predict what you'll think of it. I prefer his EMI Bruckner (the Fourth and Seventh too).

Sarge

[Dancing Divertimentian]

van Beinum, Concertgebouw, live from 06.1955 (Philips)

I'm glad you've gotten some good milage out of that one. I need to take it down from the shelf and give it a listen again soon.

It's also made its way back into print again along with other Bruckner from van Beinum:




[asin]B00GKI4TW6[/asin]

And while we're on the subject of the 8th, any thought's on Boulez's recording? It's one I admire a great deal.


 

[André]

I like Boulez' conception. Timings are perfect, orchestral balances judged to a nicety. Everything of note is there. I just find it all a bit too calculated. And I still don't hear the awe at the nodal points in I, III and IV. It just flows along. Some degree of liberty with pauses, suspensions, prodding and holding is missing.

That's where Beinum scores: the episodes are tied perfectly together, whether it's through some acceleration of the pulse, some oh-so-subtle relaxation, some rythmic or agogic adjustment. That's the crucial 2-3% that I find Boulez misses. The Bruckner breathing. Bones, flesh and muscles are perfectly in sync with one another. But the heartbeat is too equal.

That being said, it's a very good recommendation, what with superlative playing, very good engineering and that honest, no nonsense, patient yet dramatic conducting. If I had continued my listing it would have been in the next half dozen reordings (out of some 60 I currently own).

[Karl Henning]

Wand won that round. It was partly due to the superior (to my ears) sonics of the RCA recording; partly due to my preferring both the 1958 (Berlin/EMI) and 1988 (Vienna) performances (it's the '75 in the box).

Neither that Wand nor that Karajan are among my favorite Eighths though. Top 10 would be:

Maazel/Berlin
Maazel/SOBR
Boulez/Vienna
Schuricht/Vienna
Szell/Cleveland
Celi/Munich
Paita/Philharmonic SO
Wand/Berlin
Karajan/Berlin EMI
Tintner/Ireland

Sarge

I like Boulez' conception. Timings are perfect, orchestral balances judged to a nicety. Everything of note is there. I just find it all a bit too calculated. And I still don't hear the awe at the nodal points in I, III and IV. It just flows along. Some degree of liberty with pauses, suspensions, prodding and holding is missing.

That's where Beinum scores: the episodes are tied perfectly together, whether it's through some acceleration of the pulse, some oh-so-subtle relaxation, some rythmic or agogic adjustment. That's the crucial 2-3% that I find Boulez misses. The Bruckner breathing. Bones, flesh and muscles are perfectly in sync with one another. But the heartbeat is too equal.

That being said, it's a very good recommendation, what with superlative playing, very good engineering and that honest, no nonsense, patient yet dramatic conducting. If I had continued my listing it would have been in the next half dozen reordings (out of some 60 I currently own).

Most interesting, thanks, gents!

Probably new since your last call, André, but I've become a Bruckner fan.

[André]

Well, I'll be !