Haydn symphonies

[André]

I am not through with Brüggen's set . Also the "middle symphonies" are not as "storm and stress"ful as with some other conductors, but the more nuanced approach also has many advantages.

Same here. I'm starting on the set and finding that other recordings are sturmer and drangier than these (even Marriner in the 'named' S&D ones). But the approach is genial, which I like.

Maybe I should invest in the Marriner set ? I used to have them all on vinyl and cassette  .

[Jo498]

I only have (and have listened to) Marriner's "Paris" set which is one of the best with a modern (chamber) orchestra; I especially like the "lighter" symphonies (84,85,87) here. There was a 10-disc set with 29 "named" symphonies, Marriner and Leppard conducting, but this is oop (available for download at an absurdly high price). Right now, besides the Paris set one can only find one older disc with 59/100/101 and 6-8. And several concertos, Masses and both oratorios.

The Pinnock "Sturm&Drang"-Box is very good, in great sound and affordable, often more lively and more straightforward than Brüggen, if not the last word in expression. I have not heard Hogwood and Goodman in those pieces, but as mentioned above some of the few available recordings with Solomons are also favorites (e.g. 45, 48, 49).

[Que]

The only person I remember disliking Brüggen was Michael Schaffer (M Forever).  As far as I recall, Michael thought he was a phony.

In my recollection that honorary title was for Jos van Immerseel, whose conducting has become quite appreciated on the forum.

But then again, M was quite generous in handing out these accolades. ..

Q

[Cosi bel do]

So, I started listening to Thomas Fey's cycle, for the moment I listened to vol. 1-7. It is an overall excellent cycle, and for all I heard it bears all the characteristics of a possible "reference full cycle" in these symphonies. But this doesn't mean these performances are always excellent of course (there are a few weaker performances) and, most importantly, it is a little bland, a little too "papa" at times, and even sometimes kind of artificial in the way ideas and effects are applied to the score, without much variety.

It is no surprise, then, that Fey only gets to be my favourite in symphonies where I found the discography really not satisfying, for instance no. 34 or 40 where Dorati only won because of too few opponents. Fey actually rarely matches the best versions, if I take symphonies one by one (except in no. 52 actually, where I couldn't choose between Kuijken, Weil and Fey, except maybe if I did a full and detailed comparison of the three, that all have minor weaknesses anyway).

In a few symphonies (a couple Paris symphonies, and no. 69 'Laudon') I comparing Fey back-to-back against Weil, Harnoncourt, or even Hogwood (very good for once in 69). Each time, Fey was a little inferior everywhere (tension, instrumental quality and colour even for a modern orchestra), sometimes frankly lacking ideas (no. 87 for instance). Also, the acoustics of these CDs in general put the orchestra at a distance that is not useful (I don't feel it covers any strong orchestral defect) and that reduces impact, dynamics...

I'll continue listening to this cycle of course, I feel Fey will really fill a void in many "minor" symphonies. But after reading so many great things about him here, I can't help but feel a little disappointed. I'll buy the full set with pleasure when it will be out though !

By the way, it is interesting to read in the first booklets that this Haydn projects was supposed to be completed in 2009, for the bicentenary of Haydn's death. It has apparently been really delayed... Also, at first (and that might be an explanation), Fey was supposed to record the full cycle with two different orchestras, but in the end only the Heidelberger Sinfoniker stayed on the project, and the Schlierbacher Kammerorchester completely dropped out of the picture. I'm under the impression the latter was actually disbanded...

Here is my updated list of favourite versions, then :

1. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
2. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
3. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
4. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
5. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
6. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
7. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
8. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
9. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
10. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
11. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
12. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
13. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
14. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
15. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
16. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
17. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
18. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
19. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
20. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
21. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
22. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
23. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
24. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
25. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
26. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
27. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
28. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
29. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
30. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
31. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
32. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
33. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
34. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
35. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert
36. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
37. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
38. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
39. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
40. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
41. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
42. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
43. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
44. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
45. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien /// Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
46. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
47. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
48. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
49. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Gottfried von der Goltz & Freiburger Barockorchester
50. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
51. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
52. Sigiswald Kuijken / La Petite Bande /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
53. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
54. Christopher Hogwood / AAM (2nd version, 1994)
55. Hermann Scherchen / Wiener Symphoniker
56. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
57. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
58. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert
59. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
60. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
61. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
62. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
63. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
64. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
65. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
66. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
67. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
68. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
69. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
70. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
71. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
72. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
73. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
74. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
75. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
76. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
77. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
78. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
79. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
80. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
81. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
82. Herbert von Karajan / Berliner Philharmoniker /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
83. Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
84. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
85. Guy van Waas / Les Agrémens
86. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
87. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica & Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
88. Wilhelm Furtwängler / Berliner Philharmoniker
89. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
90. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
91. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century
92. Sigiswald Kuijken / La Petite Bande
93. Thomas Beecham / Royal Philharmonic Orchestra /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
94. Wilhelm Furtwängler / Wiener Philharmoniker /// Pau Casals / Marlboro Festival Orchestra
95. Pau Casals / Marlboro Festival Orchestra /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
96. Christopher Hogwood / AAM /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
97. George Szell / Cleveland Orchestra (1957) /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
98. Ferenc Fricsay / RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
99. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century
100. Ferenc Fricsay / RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin /// Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
101. Arturo Toscanini / NBC Symphony Orchestra /// Fritz Reiner (and "his Symphony Orchestra") /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
102. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic 1962 /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
103. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
104. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
105. (Sinfonia Concertante) Wiener Staatsopernorchester / Hermann Scherchen
107. (Symphonie "A") Christopher Hogwood / AAM
108. (Symphonie "B") Christopher Hogwood / AAM

Favourite cycles for :
- Paris symphonies : 1. Harnoncourt / 2. Weil / 3. Bernstein / 4. Kuijken / 5. Brüggen / 6. Goodman & Karajan ex aequo / 8. Dorati & Fey ex aequo.
- London symphonies : ... (still have to listen to a few of them)

[Old Listener]

Here is my updated list of favourite versions, then :

1. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
2. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
3. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
4. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
5. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
...

I have far less conviction about my making such a list than I once did.  For more than half the symphonies, I have more than one performance that I like  a lot.  I cycle through them rather than playing the same favorite over and over.

A recent discovery: Fruhbeck de Burgos / Bavarian RSO playing a very enjoyable Sym. 100 in concert.  Do I prefer it to the Klemperer recording?  I don't know but I sure enjoy listening to it.

[Mandryka]

So, I started listening to Thomas Fey's cycle, for the moment I listened to vol. 1-7. It is an overall excellent cycle, and for all I heard it bears all the characteristics of a possible "reference full cycle" in these symphonies. But this doesn't mean these performances are always excellent of course (there are a few weaker performances) and, most importantly, it is a little bland, a little too "papa" at times, and even sometimes kind of artificial in the way ideas and effects are applied to the score, without much variety.

It is no surprise, then, that Fey only gets to be my favourite in symphonies where I found the discography really not satisfying, for instance no. 34 or 40 where Dorati only won because of too few opponents. Fey actually rarely matches the best versions, if I take symphonies one by one (except in no. 52 actually, where I couldn't choose between Kuijken, Weil and Fey, except maybe if I did a full and detailed comparison of the three, that all have minor weaknesses anyway).

In a few symphonies (a couple Paris symphonies, and no. 69 'Laudon') I comparing Fey back-to-back against Weil, Harnoncourt, or even Hogwood (very good for once in 69). Each time, Fey was a little inferior everywhere (tension, instrumental quality and colour even for a modern orchestra), sometimes frankly lacking ideas (no. 87 for instance). Also, the acoustics of these CDs in general put the orchestra at a distance that is not useful (I don't feel it covers any strong orchestral defect) and that reduces impact, dynamics...

I'll continue listening to this cycle of course, I feel Fey will really fill a void in many "minor" symphonies. But after reading so many great things about him here, I can't help but feel a little disappointed. I'll buy the full set with pleasure when it will be out though !

By the way, it is interesting to read in the first booklets that this Haydn projects was supposed to be completed in 2009, for the bicentenary of Haydn's death. It has apparently been really delayed... Also, at first (and that might be an explanation), Fey was supposed to record the full cycle with two different orchestras, but in the end only the Heidelberger Sinfoniker stayed on the project, and the Schlierbacher Kammerorchester completely dropped out of the picture. I'm under the impression the latter was actually disbanded...

Here is my updated list of favourite versions, then :

1. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
2. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
3. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
4. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
5. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
6. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
7. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
8. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
9. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
10. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
11. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
12. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
13. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
14. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
15. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
16. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
17. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
18. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
19. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
20. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
21. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
22. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
23. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
24. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
25. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
26. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
27. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
28. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
29. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
30. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
31. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
32. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
33. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
34. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
35. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert
36. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
37. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
38. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
39. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
40. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
41. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
42. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
43. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
44. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
45. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien /// Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
46. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
47. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
48. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
49. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Gottfried von der Goltz & Freiburger Barockorchester
50. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
51. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
52. Sigiswald Kuijken / La Petite Bande /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
53. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
54. Christopher Hogwood / AAM (2nd version, 1994)
55. Hermann Scherchen / Wiener Symphoniker
56. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
57. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
58. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert
59. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
60. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
61. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
62. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
63. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
64. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
65. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
66. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
67. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
68. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
69. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
70. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
71. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
72. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
73. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
74. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
75. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
76. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
77. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
78. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
79. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
80. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
81. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
82. Herbert von Karajan / Berliner Philharmoniker /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
83. Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
84. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
85. Guy van Waas / Les Agrémens
86. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
87. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica & Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
88. Wilhelm Furtwängler / Berliner Philharmoniker
89. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
90. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
91. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century
92. Sigiswald Kuijken / La Petite Bande
93. Thomas Beecham / Royal Philharmonic Orchestra /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
94. Wilhelm Furtwängler / Wiener Philharmoniker /// Pau Casals / Marlboro Festival Orchestra
95. Pau Casals / Marlboro Festival Orchestra /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
96. Christopher Hogwood / AAM /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
97. George Szell / Cleveland Orchestra (1957) /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
98. Ferenc Fricsay / RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
99. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century
100. Ferenc Fricsay / RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin /// Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
101. Arturo Toscanini / NBC Symphony Orchestra /// Fritz Reiner (and "his Symphony Orchestra") /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
102. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic 1962 /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
103. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
104. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
105. (Sinfonia Concertante) Wiener Staatsopernorchester / Hermann Scherchen
107. (Symphonie "A") Christopher Hogwood / AAM
108. (Symphonie "B") Christopher Hogwood / AAM

Favourite cycles for :
- Paris symphonies : 1. Harnoncourt / 2. Weil / 3. Bernstein / 4. Kuijken / 5. Brüggen / 6. Goodman & Karajan ex aequo / 8. Dorati & Fey ex aequo.
- London symphonies : ... (still have to listen to a few of them)

Thanks for Les Agrémens, which I hadn't heard before. Have you heard Scherchen's Ultraphon recordings? Or Klemperer's 102? Or Rosbaud 104? There are also some excellent Harnoncourt bootlegs and video performances around.

[Jo498]

I think I have about 7-8 of the Fey discs (the Paris set as well as 45,39,40,50,64,65,69,70,73,75). I am somewhat ambivalent. They are certainly a worthy addition to the catalogue and in many lesser known symphonies maybe even a first choice. But some things are just over the top for me. Exaggerated dynamics (like blasting brass) and mannered details (like strange rubati) rule supreme, sometimes at the expense of almost everything else. Like cheap thrills that will not bear repeated listening and just start grating on one's nerves after a while. And while the combination of modern and old instrument does often work well, it sounds sometimes also "cold" to me, compared with the more subtle colors of old instruments throughout.

[Cosi bel do]

Thanks for Les Agrémens, which I hadn't heard before. Have you heard Scherchen's Ultraphon recordings? Or Klemperer's 102? Or Rosbaud 104? There are also some excellent Harnoncourt bootlegs and video performances around.

I still have to listen to many recordings, including:
- some Scherchen recordings (but I don't even have a list of his complete Haydn recordings, there are really a lot of them, even past what Tahra and Universal have released again, and that I have and have listened to)
- Klemperer: one of the main sets I still have to hear (with Abbado, and a few London cycles)
- Rosbaud: I see 92 and 104 are on Spotify, I'll try them, along with a few remaining versions, after finishing the Fey CDs I have t my disposal.

Bootlegs and videos, well, I'll check them after all that. I can take my time, this project took me almost the whole year, so I'm not in a hurry... (Then, my big plan is to do the same with the quartets  )

But suggestions are most welcome.

[Mandryka]

I still have to listen to many recordings, including:
- some Scherchen recordings (but I don't even have a list of his complete Haydn recordings, there are really a lot of them, even past what Tahra and Universal have released again, and that I have and have listened to)
- Klemperer: one of the main sets I still have to hear (with Abbado, and a few London cycles)
- Rosbaud: I see 92 and 104 are on Spotify, I'll try them, along with a few remaining versions, after finishing the Fey CDs I have t my disposal.

Bootlegs and videos, well, I'll check them after all that. I can take my time, this project took me almost the whole year, so I'm not in a hurry... (Then, my big plan is to do the same with the quartets  )

But suggestions are most welcome.

The Scherchen 48 for Ultraphon is really special, really inspired I think. Rosbaud was the conductor who made me take Haydn's music seriously -- him and Fricsay and Van Beinum and Ranki on the piano. I think that Klemperer's Haydn is not as good as his Mozart, but the 102 is IMO one of the really great Haydn recordings. Harnoncourt has started to play 26 -- I'll send it to you. And the video I'm thinking of is 92 with CMV. It's excellent.

The other one you may like is the live London symphonies with Norrington, on Haensler.

[Old Listener]

I think I have about 7-8 of the Fey discs (the Paris set as well as 45,39,40,50,64,65,69,70,73,75). I am somewhat ambivalent. They are certainly a worthy addition to the catalogue and in many lesser known symphonies maybe even a first choice. But some things are just over the top for me. Exaggerated dynamics (like blasting brass) and mannered details (like strange rubati) rule supreme, sometimes at the expense of almost everything else. Like cheap thrills that will not bear repeated listening and just start grating on one's nerves after a while. And while the combination of modern and old instrument does often work well, it sounds sometimes also "cold" to me, compared with the more subtle colors of old instruments throughout.

I agree.  After repeated attempts to find some redeeming value to the performances, I sold the Fey Haydn disks I had bought.

[Sergeant Rock]

it is a little bland, a little too "papa" at times

Fey bland? Well, that's a utterly new characterization. Are you sure you were listening to Fey's Haydn?

cheap thrills that will not bear repeated listening

I see you completely disagree with Discobolus  Thrills, yes, in spades...but cheap? ...I don't think so. I've been listening repeatedly to all the volumes so far issued with nary a problem. In fact, they keep calling out to me.

I agree.  After repeated attempts to find some redeeming value to the performances, I sold the Fey Haydn disks I had bought.

Really? Really? You couldn't find anything redeeming in Fey performances?    I don't think you looked very hard   

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

Really? Really? You couldn't find anything redeeming in Fey performances?    I don't think you looked very hard   

Sarge

See why I don't play this game, Sarge? I laughed when I read all that, knowing how you would react. My own feeling is whatever anyone wants to listen to, they can be happy with it, as long as it's Haydn.   0:)

[Jo498]

I agree that there's nothing bland about them, but they are overly spicy!

My intensive Haydn symphony listening took place about 2008-10 and I had maybe 3-4 Fey discs then, so he was not a major factor and the stuff I got since then I have not listened so much and compared.

I am fond of fast menuets, but he is absurdly so in the #104 (the first recording of his I encountered, this was probably already in 2006 or so) and I also dislike the extreme slowing down for the trio. He is following Harnoncourts example and completely overdoing it. The music can hardly be articulated at this speed and the trio that could need a little spice becomes boring at half speed. This is something I didn't need repeated listenings to dislike, so I was wrong on that account I also remember that I really liked the first movement of his #85 to find odd and inexplicable rubati in the following movement. A few weeks ago I listened to his 70 and/or 75 and was startled by the brass outbursts. Turns out that I still preferred him somewhat to Goodman, because Goodman plays a version without timpani and only horns (and those less prominent I guess). Still, he also overdid dynamics and added rubato in the finale of 70 where the pauses are already there in the score and do not have to be exaggerated in such a fashion.

As I said, usually I am happy to have them, but I become somewhat wary and (also because of the high price and some saturation of my Haydn collection) I now take my time and will probably not get all volumes. (I have 9 discs if I am not mistaken: 94/104, 45/64, 83-85, 69/86/87, 82/88/95, 39/40/50, 57/65/59, 70/73/75 and 93/96/97 (not even sure if I listened to the last one...)

[Cosi bel do]

Fey bland? Well, that's a utterly new characterization. Are you sure you were listening to Fey's Haydn?

Yes, bland, for a recent recording anyway, and as I tried to explain I think it is the result of several factors (modern instruments and overall quality of the orchestra, distant and reverberated acoustics). There are many effects, but sometimes a little artificial or mechanical, and they don't make up for a certain lack of tension, and of a more three-dimensional sound. I mean, again, these are good performances but when compared directly to Harnoncourt's Paris symphonies, or a few of the (uneven) Brüggen recordings, the richness of instrumental colours and the sharper contrasts are important elements of performances that are at times really astounding. So Fey's versions are not astounding, just very good and safe recordings, probably better than any complete cycle recorded until now, but at times or when directly compared to a very few others, a little "too" safe.

[jfdrex]

HIPsters will not approve, but... having read about Solti's set of the London Symphonies for years, I finally obtained it last month:

[asin]B0001Y4JHK[/asin]

First impressions?  A very bright, open sound, with superb woodwind playing and detail.  On the whole, tempi are brisk but not rushed; the interpretations are more straightforward than I expected, with nary a hint of Solti's reputed brutality or nervousness (except in No. 103, which struck me as the least satisfying performance in the set).

[Cosi bel do]

I agree that there's nothing bland about them, but they are overly spicy!

My intensive Haydn symphony listening took place about 2008-10 and I had maybe 3-4 Fey discs then, so he was not a major factor and the stuff I got since then I have not listened so much and compared.

I am fond of fast menuets, but he is absurdly so in the #104 (the first recording of his I encountered, this was probably already in 2006 or so) and I also dislike the extreme slowing down for the trio. He is following Harnoncourts example and completely overdoing it. The music can hardly be articulated at this speed and the trio that could need a little spice becomes boring at half speed. This is something I didn't need repeated listenings to dislike, so I was wrong on that account I also remember that I really liked the first movement of his #85 to find odd and inexplicable rubati in the following movement. A few weeks ago I listened to his 70 and/or 75 and was startled by the brass outbursts. Turns out that I still preferred him somewhat to Goodman, because Goodman plays a version without timpani and only horns (and those less prominent I guess). Still, he also overdid dynamics and added rubato in the finale of 70 where the pauses are already there in the score and do not have to be exaggerated in such a fashion.

As I said, usually I am happy to have them, but I become somewhat wary and (also because of the high price and some saturation of my Haydn collection) I now take my time and will probably not get all volumes. (I have 9 discs if I am not mistaken: 94/104, 45/64, 83-85, 69/86/87, 82/88/95, 39/40/50, 57/65/59, 70/73/75 and 93/96/97 (not even sure if I listened to the last one...)

Fey likes to compare himself with Harnoncourt, but frankly I don't think (or hear) they have much things in common. And when comparing their interpretations directly their choices are more usually opposites than alike.

[Sergeant Rock]

I agree that there's nothing bland about them, but they are overly spicy!...

Yes, bland....

Thank you for your elaboration. I find it both amusing, and not a little puzzling, how different we all are in our assessments of performances and recordings.

It's late here (Germany). I'll comment in more detail tomorrow.

Sarge

[Cosi bel do]

Well, I think it's also a difference in vocabulary. What Jo calls "overly spicy" corresponds, I think, to the effects I find too artificial and/or mechanical. And by "bland sound" I don't mean the reading is generally dull, it is not, clearly, or I'd criticize it a lot more. Which is proof that an interpretation can be bland and overly spicy at the same time

[André]

i am on the verge of listening to the last 4 discs of the Brüggen set of Haydn symphonies. He is of the HIP persuasion, at least nominally. To me he sounds more of the meek persuasion. Bernstein, Szell, even Walter and Klemperer, Dorati or - gasp - Marriner, sound more involved. Brüggen is good, but dispensable.

Listen to what intelligent musicians can do in Haydn : do yourselves a favour and buy the Tharaud/Labadie disc of concerto in D (coupled with some excellent Mozart).

[Daverz]

In general I'm not fond of Fey's punchy style.  But I'm listening to 61, a favorite symphony, right now, and it's very good.