What are you listening to now?

[Wakefield]

Have you heard the harpsichordist on the Trio Unda Maris recording? I think there's a real flair to his playing. Presumably Cabezón was so influential because he makes such astonishing polyphonic sounds come from just two hands and two feet. It's not an intellectual thing - it's a virtuosic thing. Equally complex music had been written before, just not for keyboard.

It's hard to agree with this. I mean from the standpoint of the composer I have no doubt it's essentially an intellectual issue, not a simple translation of proceedings from vocal music to the keyboard. It's the reason why Cabezón is probably the first major composer of keyboard music in the history. 

[HIPster]

@Gordo, Mandryka and premont:  fascinating discussion.  Thank you for your thoughts, re: Cabezon and Wilson, et al.

Thread duty -

On a first listen to a recent arrival ~
[asin]B00I9OFTOG[/asin]
Incredible in every way!

Really enjoy this music this morning.   

[not edward]

Playing selections from:

[asin]B00I3LDETW[/asin]

Ferneyhough's convoluted and turgid explanations of his music sometimes make me want to hate it, but when it's performed as well as it is here, it has an expressive immediacy that transcends my objections. Take early atonal Schoenberg, turn everything about it up to 11, and I imagine you'd get something like this.

[Mandryka]

It's hard to agree with this. I mean from the standpoint of the composer I have no doubt it's essentially an intellectual issue, not a simple translation of proceedings from vocal music to the keyboard. It's the reason why Cabezón is probably the first major composer of keyboard music in the history.

I can see what you're saying I think -- he was a great composer because of his practical  ideas about how to do polyphony on the keyboard, which were influential. But his music is great (if indeed it's great at all) because it's full of astonishing polyphonic ideas -- you see the difference? He could well be a great composer (because of the ideas and the influence) who wrote no great music.  I don't experience his music as an intellectual thing, like a Babbitt string quartet or a Reger fugue.

(By the way, I meant the harpsichordists with Accentus Ensemble, not what I said above.)

[Wakefield]

Well, yes a matter of taste. But a too much non-interventionist approach carries the risk of inducing monotony.

I disagree: monotony is a result of lacking of artistry. I know "non-interventionist" is frequently a tricky expression, but I use it this way: when the complete personality, experiences, emotions and skills of the performer are focused to exactly tell the "story" told (the ideal object created) by the composer, such as has loyally been understood by the performer, you have a non-interventionist approach. If the story is, for instance, merely intellectual story, the performer shouldn't move a finger to add emotions to it... 

Of course, other approaches are equally valid, but this is what I understand for non-interventionist.

No, I mean that the Tiento´s are more ascetic than the Glosa´s and the Differencia´s.

It's clear now. 

[Ken B]

1 then 2

[asin]B005SJIP1E[/asin]

Remastered sound is verygood. This is not your father's Columbia sound! 

[Wakefield]

I can see what you're saying I think -- he was a great composer because of his practical  ideas about how to do polyphony on the keyboard, which were influential. But his music is great (if indeed it's great at all) because it's full of astonishing polyphonic ideas -- you see the difference? He could well be a great composer (because of the ideas and the influence) who wrote no great music.  I don't experience his music as an intellectual thing, like a Babbitt string quartet or a Reger fugue.

As I said from the beginning of this conversation, I agree with you: Cabezón wrote great music. But to put my ideas into more general categories, IMO he is a composer more Apollonian than Dionysian. More intellectual than emotional; curiously, more Northern Europe than Mediterranean. His output is not deprived of emotions, of course; but you easily perceive a strong intellectual frame behind it... as when you listen to the AoF, to mention one of the greatest musical works of the History.

[Bogey]

1 then 2

[asin]B005SJIP1E[/asin]

Remastered sound is verygood. This is not your father's Columbia sound! 

Line of the day.

[Ken B]

Playing selections from:

[asin]B00I3LDETW[/asin]

Ferneyhough's convoluted and turgid explanations of his music sometimes make me want to hate it, but when it's performed as well as it is here, it has an expressive immediacy that transcends my objections. Take early atonal Schoenberg, turn everything about it up to 11, and I imagine you'd get something like this.

We need a new poll: composers who sound worse than their music. Boulez is excluded of course, as no-one could compete. Wagner also has had his number retired after winning every year from 1850 to 1925.

I nominate John Adams.

[Sammy]

Have you heard the harpsichordist on the Trio Unda Maris recording? I think there's a real flair to his playing. Presumably Cabezón was so influential because he makes such astonishing polyphonic sounds come from just two hands and two feet. It's not an intellectual thing - it's a virtuosic thing. Equally complex music had been written before, just not for keyboard.

By the way, I don't really hear Wilson as intellectual, like Leonhardt's second recording of the English Suites is intellectual. I hear him as more "tough", like Weinberger and Suzuki, the sort of thing Bulldog likes. There's plenty of emotion in there, just not weepy or lovey-dovey.

Right.  When I want "lovey-dovey", I turn to my wife, not a piece of music.

[EigenUser]

This seems interesting. I like the sound of the Baryton. Currently, Trio No. 63
[asin]B005EYP9OY[/asin]

[Moonfish]

1 then 2

[asin]B005SJIP1E[/asin]

Remastered sound is verygood. This is not your father's Columbia sound! 

Such a wonderful cycle (if one wants to hear a Mahler cycle that is)..

[Moonfish]

TD
de Victoria: Missa o quam gloriosum; Hymns and Motets      Ensemble Plus Ultra/Noone

from
[asin] B0050F6JQE[/asin]



Vivaldi: Mottetti RV 629, 631, 633, 623, 628, 630           Herrmann/Polverelli/Academia Montis Regalis/de Marchi

[asin] B00009LI71[/asin]

[Ken B]

Such a wonderful cycle (if one wants to hear a Mahler cycle that is)..

I continue to find it a dud, the one real weak part of the symphony box. I confess I liked it when I was 18. I liked KFC at that age too.

From the box, Haydn 98,99
Most definitely Lennie's Haydn is no dud. Consistently fine big band Haydn.

Next up, Marc Blitzstein, Airborne Symphony (corrected, thanks to listener)
First listen ever to this.

[Todd]

Disc 7.  Some Milhaud, Chausson, and Greunberg.  First rate conducting of a second rate band playing third rate music.  (OK, the Chausson may be second rate.)

[André]

Elgar's The Dream of Gerontius, one of the most hallowed works in the realm of religious music - only Verdi's Requiem being on that level of greatness and grandeur, searing drama and emotional outpouring. 

This version: http://www.amazon.ca/Dream-Gerontius-Connolly/dp/B00N83U9WU 

Easily the best sound I've heard in the work - not an unimportant factor in this multi-layered work. Part I is unfurling right now, and everything is right so far: pace, mood, textures, voices (Stuart Skelton's Gerontius is the  opposite vocally of Peter Pears' - IOW he's a healthy dying man).

What a work !!!

Preceding Gerontius: Nocturnes by Gabriel Fauré. Jean-Philippe Collard was the admirable pianist.

[EigenUser]

I continue to find it a dud, the one real weak part of the symphony box.

Out of curiosity, why? Do you prefer a 'cooler' Mahler?

Currently, Haydn Op. 77 SQs.
[asin]B0000DETAV[/asin]

[Ken B]

Out of curiosity, why? Do you prefer a 'cooler' Mahler?

Absolutely. Chailly, Boulez, Abravanel, Levine seem to be my go to guys for Mahler these days. Haven't dug into Abbado yet but I expect to like it, based on one symphony.

The Mahler symphonies are very long, often very complex. They have virtues you miss if it's all orgasmatron all the time. (Same for Shostakovich) (And everyone else.)

(On the Dionysian-Appollonian axis, I am at the Apollo end. So are you I think.)

[listener]

Next up, Marc Mlitzstein, Airborne Symphony

That would be a first for me too, but I think you meant Blitzstein (not Milstein) .
tonight: FROBERGER: Fantasia 1, 3 Toccatas, Capricco VI on the organ of Michaelskerk, Zwolle
and harpsichord pieces ( 2 Suites, Tombeau de M. Blancrocher...) on an early 18th century French instrument
Gustav Leonhardt
and on the organ of the Queen's Free Chapel of Saint George Windsor Castle:
FRANCK: Pièce Héroïque, Chorale no. 1, ROGER-DUCASSE: Pastorale  VIERNE: Carillon de Westminster
Dr. Sidney Campbell, organist

[Ken B]

Elgar's The Dream of Gerontius, one of the most hallowed works in the realm of religious music - only Verdi's Requiem being on that level of greatness and grandeur, searing drama and emotional outpouring. 

Sarge : mcukrneal :: Ken B : Andre