Beethoven Violin Concerto

jochanaan · February 22, 2015, 03:44:21 PM

I still have my old family LP recording, a lovely lyrical classic by Zino Francescatti, Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra from somewhere around 1950. We also had the Munch/Heifetz, but I much prefer Francescatti's tone and lyricism. He was one of the great ones, yet is seldom remembered now.

Hmmm...I would like to hear a more modern, faster and dynamic recording...

Daverz · February 22, 2015, 06:37:11 PM

Francescatti/Walter is my "comfort food" version. My first was Ferras/Karajan, which was the bonus LP for signing up for the International Preview Society, along with Boehm's Beethoven Symphony set. Schneiderhan was the first one I had on CD. It's one of the few recordings that uses a cadenza transcribed from the one Beethoven wrote for the piano and orchestra arrangement of the concerto, a cadenza I don't care much for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_Concerto_%28Beethoven%29#Alternative_versions

Wanderer · February 23, 2015, 03:39:59 AM

Quote from: North Star on February 22, 2015, 01:06:27 AM
You might like this one, where Kopatchinskaja plays the piano cadenza, with multi-tracking.
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+1!

I'd also heartily recommend Kremer/Harnoncourt (who also plays that same, splendid cadenza).

Jo498 · February 23, 2015, 03:50:02 AM

But Kremer/Harnoncourt have a crazy version of the cadenza by more or less playing the piano and violin version of it at the same time. I am not fond of this handling of the cadenza but for some reason I am keeping the disc, probably I liked the playing except for the crazy cadenza...

Wanderer · February 23, 2015, 04:04:51 AM

Quote from: Jo498 on February 23, 2015, 03:50:02 AM
But Kremer/Harnoncourt have a crazy version of the cadenza by more or less playing the piano and violin version of it at the same time. I am not fond of this handling of the cadenza but for some reason I am keeping the disc, probably I liked the playing except for the crazy cadenza...

I am extremely fond both of their handling of the cadenza (a nod, moreover, to the fact that it originated in the piano concerto transcription of the work) and of their interpretation overall.

Jo498 · February 23, 2015, 04:48:37 AM

Don't you find it strange that a piano appears out of thin air for the cadenza? It is a *violin* concerto!

aligreto · February 23, 2015, 09:03:19 AM

Quote from: Jo498 on February 23, 2015, 04:48:37 AM
Don't you find it strange that a piano appears out of thin air for the cadenza? It is a *violin* concerto!

I have not heard that version but I know that I would also find that strange.

Que · February 23, 2015, 09:09:40 AM

Quote from: aligreto on February 21, 2015, 06:37:07 AM
Are there any essential recordings/performances in your opinion that are missing from the above list?
What recommendations would you make for this work based on your own preferences?

I miss two Golden Oldies: Georg Kulenkampff and Bronislav Huberman. Suggestions below.

My all time favorites are: Zehetmair/Brüggen, Huberman/Szell and Schneiderhan/Jochum.

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The Huberman has been also issued on Appian, which would be a preferable transfer provided you can find it...

Kulenkampf also did a live recording with Furtwängler (Melodyia)

Q

aligreto · February 23, 2015, 11:00:19 AM

Quote from: Que on February 23, 2015, 09:09:40 AM
I miss two Golden Oldies: Georg Kulenkampff and Bronislav Huberman. Suggestions below.

....

[asin]B004GHYCGG[/asin] [asin]B00004HYLG[/asin]

The Huberman has been also issued on Appian, which would be a preferable transfer provided you can find it...

Kulenkampf also did a live recording with Furtwängler (Melodyia)

Q

Thank you for that but I must display my ignorance and say that I have not come across those two names before.

Wanderer · February 23, 2015, 12:01:19 PM

Quote from: Jo498 on February 23, 2015, 04:48:37 AM
Don't you find it strange that a piano appears out of thin air for the cadenza? It is a *violin* concerto!

So do the timpani. In a *violin* concerto. The nerve of some people!

Wanderer · February 23, 2015, 12:32:29 PM

Quote from: aligreto on February 23, 2015, 09:03:19 AM
I have not heard that version but I know that I would also find that strange.

It's all a matter of perspective. The piano and timpani version is actually what Beethoven wrote and the end result of this violin/piano/timpani cadenza ends up being tongue-in-cheek brilliant. I think Kremer/Harnoncourt sought to replicate part of the shock value that Beethoven probably intended by incorporating the timpani in the first place. The result is in my view in very good taste and quite refreshing-sounding. Of course, YMMV.

Jo498 · February 23, 2015, 12:49:14 PM

As the concerto starts with timpani (and Beethoven had already pulled the timpani for the (end of the) cadenza in the 3rd piano concerto) they are admissible. But the piano is, as you say, a shock effect that makes no sense for me and gets on my nerves quickly. I admit that I have never heard the piano version of this concerto but I am not terribly fond of the cadenza even in the "normal" version, i.e. Schneiderhan's arrangement for violin (+ timps).

Pat B · February 23, 2015, 12:50:45 PM

Quote from: aligreto on February 23, 2015, 11:00:19 AM
Thank you for that but I must display my ignorance and say that I have not come across those two names before.

I'm not familiar with Kulenkampff.

Huberman was a big name in his era, I would guess second among his generation in fame (to Kreisler). I have that Naxos disc. IIRC the orchestral playing is very rough, and the sound quality is about what you'd expect from the 1930s. But Huberman has a very distinctive style, unlike any others I've heard. For someone who has over a dozen versions, and is looking for more, it would be a good choice, if you can tolerate the sound quality.

Gurn Blanston · February 23, 2015, 01:07:44 PM

I have:

Zehetmair/Brüggen
Kopatchinskaja/Herreweghe
Mullova / Gardiner
Beths / Tafelmusik

and a bunch on modern instruments like Mutter/Karajan (doesn't everyone??) and Ricci etc., more than I can remember, actually. I listen to the PI ones fairly often, but I got burned out on this work some time back. As much as I like it, I still don't listen as often as I used to. That said, I have them listed pretty much in order of favorite. I couldn't not have Zehetmair if I had to give up all but one, so I guess that is the decider.

aligreto · February 23, 2015, 01:14:29 PM

Quote from: Pat B on February 23, 2015, 12:50:45 PM
I'm not familiar with Kulenkampff.

Huberman was a big name in his era, I would guess second among his generation in fame (to Kreisler). I have that Naxos disc. IIRC the orchestral playing is very rough, and the sound quality is about what you'd expect from the 1930s. But Huberman has a very distinctive style, unlike any others I've heard. For someone who has over a dozen versions, and is looking for more, it would be a good choice, if you can tolerate the sound quality.

You make a compelling argument in the sense that his style appears to be quite unique. I can tolerate poor sound quality [what does one really expect from the 1930s?] if the performance is worth it. This one sounds interesting.

Wakefield · February 23, 2015, 01:22:40 PM

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 23, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
I have:

Zehetmair/Brüggen
Kopatchinskaja/Herreweghe
Mullova / Gardiner
Beths / Tafelmusik

and a bunch on modern instruments like Mutter/Karajan (doesn't everyone??) and Ricci etc., more than I can remember, actually. I listen to the PI ones fairly often, but I got burned out on this work some time back. As much as I like it, I still don't listen as often as I used to. That said, I have them listed pretty much in order of favorite. I couldn't not have Zehetmair if I had to give up all but one, so I guess that is the decider.

I would have a hard time pressed to decide between Zehetmair and Mullova.

Gurn Blanston · February 23, 2015, 01:30:19 PM

Quote from: Gordo on February 23, 2015, 01:22:40 PM
I would have a hard time pressed to decide between Zehetmair and Mullova.

Mullova does a great Beethoven, her sonatas with Bezuidenhout being a case in point.

Wakefield · February 23, 2015, 02:13:36 PM

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 23, 2015, 01:30:19 PM
Mullova does a great Beethoven, her sonatas with Bezuidenhout being a case in point.

Speaking of which, these days I'm a bit obsessed with a set that, somehow, had slipped under my radar: Hiro Kurosaki and Linda Nicholson (Accent).

I have been listening to their disks via ClassicsOnline HD, and it has been a very pleasant experience.

Have you heard some of them, Gurn?

Gurn Blanston · February 23, 2015, 02:46:20 PM

Quote from: Gordo on February 23, 2015, 02:13:36 PM
Speaking of which, these days I'm a bit obsessed with a set that, somehow, had slipped under my radar: Hiro Kurosaki and Linda Nicholson (Accent).

I have been listening to their disks via ClassicsOnline HD, and it has been a very pleasant experience.

Have you heard some of them, Gurn?

No, under my radar too, I guess. In fact, those players are too. PI?

Wakefield · February 23, 2015, 06:54:34 PM

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on February 23, 2015, 02:46:20 PM
No, under my radar too, I guess. In fact, those players are too. PI?

Totally PI.

If you have some recording of the London Fortepiano Trio (Mozart piano trios on Hyperion, maybe?), she plays there.

Kurosaki has been concertino of Les Arts Florissants, Clemencic Consort, London Baroque, Cappella Coloniensis y Orquesta Barroca de Sevilla. As far as I recall, I just have one monographic disk by him, some excellent Handel's violin sonatas with William Christie.