Domenico Scarlatti (1685-1757)

[Ten thumbs]

Which of the Scarlatti sonatas were written for piano? Which sonatas need to be majorly transcribed to fit on one keyboard?

Research to date has not found any evidence that Scarlatti had access to a piano. Certainly there was no such instrument in the palace inventories.

[Mandryka]

What do they mean by "in this case"? If they mean performance on a modern piano, in general, then I think there are plenty of counter-examples where the effect is anything but light. (But there are also plenty of sonatas in which lightness is welcome.)

It's hard to say what they meant. Somehow, with harpsichordists, I'm more often  aware of the clashing chords that you get in some of the sonatas. I don't know whether lightness is the word for what you hear from some pianists on a modern piano. Sweetness maybe.

[PaulSC]

It's hard to say what they meant. Somehow, with harpsichordists, I'm more often  aware of the clashing chords that you get in some of the sonatas. I don't know whether lightness is the word for what you hear from some pianists on a modern piano. Sweetness maybe.

That nails it, I think! Probably a combination of the temperament and the timbre of the instrument. (For these same reasons, atonal harmony doesn't "read" very clearly on the harpsichord.) Some pianists compensate with a degree of aggression - Horowitz and Sudbin come to mind; I enjoy it but don't need it.

If you like harpsichord performances with "bite", I highly recommend Elina Mustonen on Alba (for the repertoire and how she plays it)

[asin]B000CSCETK[/asin]

[Mandryka]

That nails it, I think! Probably a combination of the temperament and the timbre of the instrument. (For these same reasons, atonal harmony doesn't "read" very clearly on the harpsichord.) Some pianists compensate with a degree of aggression - Horowitz and Sudbin come to mind; I enjoy it but don't need it.

If you like harpsichord performances with "bite", I highly recommend Elina Mustonen on Alba (for the repertoire and how she plays it)

[asin]B000CSCETK[/asin]

Noted. Though as I suggested in some post above, my feelings about Scarlatti's music, at least as it's mostly presented, are very mixed, mainly negative, and mostly I just feel that he's not a composer for me, at least when played authentically. Just the occasional glimmer of something special, like in that Vartolo CD, makes me persevere.

One set of  records which which I have been exploring with some pleasure is Blandine Verlet's four CDs. Do you know them? As is often the case with Verlet, the range of emotions she projects on the music is astonishing. How informed her style is, I do not know.

I'm sure temperament makes an enormous difference with this music.

[PaulSC]

One set of  records which which I have been exploring with some pleasure is Blandine Verlet's four CDs. Do you know them? As is often the case with Verlet, the range of emotions she projects on the music is astonishing. How informed her style is, I do not know.

I will have to watch for the Verlet recordings; I don't know them but I bet I would enjoy them.

I'm sure temperament makes an enormous difference with this music.

Indeed! Scarlatti often wrote in remote keys and made bold modulations.

[petrarch]

As is often the case with Verlet, the range of emotions she projects on the music is astonishing. How informed her style is, I do not know.

I'm sure temperament makes an enormous difference with this music.

Had an idea: Sonatas for Well-Tempered Harpsichordist .

[Mandryka]

You know, I think Frith's  is probably the most enjoyable Scarlatti piano CD I've ever heard. His style - emotionally he can do whatever he feels the music requires: strength, sadness, yearning, joy etc; he doesn't use obviously intrusive rubato or agogics; textures are very clear; there's absolutely no sense of these pieces being vacuous bravura music - it's always the melody and counterpoint which make the sonatas worth hearing, not the speed or skill of execution; he uses a modern piano, the touch is quite pianistic, but not at all hard; tonally he's no Sokolov, it's not chocolate and bronze, but the sound he makes is silver without being steely, pewter in fact, and that seems right for this music. I can listen to the whole disc without feeling boredom setting in and most of the sonatas are pretty rare outside of big surveys, chosen from early and late music.

That makes two very fine Scarlatti CDs I've found recently, both very different fro each othet. This one from Frith and the bold, innovative harpsichord one from Leonardo Carrieri. Carrieri is more wild than Frith, more astonishing harmonically and rhythmically.





Frith, by the way, was a Hatto Scarlatti pianist. Once again evidence for Barrington-Coupe's impeccable judgement.

[calyptorhynchus]

I've got a question. I'd like to get to know Scarlatti's sonatas better. So far in my listening I have decided

1. I prefer piano to harpsichord
2. I prefer the slower, more introspective sonatas (often minor key)

Can people recommend piano disks that mainly concentrate on the slower, introspective sonatas?

[Mandryka]

If you like harpsichord performances with "bite", I highly recommend Elina Mustonen on Alba (for the repertoire and how she plays it)

[asin]B000CSCETK[/asin]

This turned out to be enjoyable. Thanks.

[Mandryka]

I've got a question. I'd like to get to know Scarlatti's sonatas better. So far in my listening I have decided

1. I prefer piano to harpsichord
2. I prefer the slower, more introspective sonatas (often minor key)

Can people recommend piano disks that mainly concentrate on the slower, introspective sonatas?

Maybe this

[calyptorhynchus]

Yes, the Leach disk is just what I wanted! Thanks.

[Jo498]

I do not know enough about the composer's life but to me it seems that it was a conscious choice to write fairly short, picturesque and often manually brilliant pieces instead of more "serious" suites or preludes and fugues. It might have started as literal exercises and in any case these are all comparably late pieces.

Before that Scarlatti wrote among other things a 10 voice Stabat Mater and other church music in a style as severely polyphonic and conservative as anything by JS Bach (and also more conservative than most of the church music of Alessandro Scarlatti who wrote some kind of a fusion between stile antico and espressivo operatic high baroque, often leaning more to the latter).

So while this late focus on one rather particular genre is certainly remarkable, it's actually only one aspect of a composer who was more versatile in his younger years and wrote (albeit very few) extraordinary pieces in a very different genre and style.

[lescamil]

Scarlatti actually has a decent number of fugues interspersed with the typical sonata in binary form. There are even a few sonatas that call for solo instrument and continuo, rather than keyboard!

[Karl Henning]

And some of the sonatas are quite substantial.

[Mandryka]

So which one is the most substantial?

[Karl Henning]

So which one is the most substantial?

I should not say that I know them all well enough to answer quite that question.

But two examples of substantial sonatas are the d minor, K.213, and the A Major, K.404.

[Mandryka]

I do not know enough about the composer's life but to me it seems that it was a conscious choice to write fairly short, picturesque and often manually brilliant pieces instead of more "serious" suites or preludes and fugues. It might have started as literal exercises and in any case these are all comparably late pieces.

Before that Scarlatti wrote among other things a 10 voice Stabat Mater and other church music in a style as severely polyphonic and conservative as anything by JS Bach (and also more conservative than most of the church music of Alessandro Scarlatti who wrote some kind of a fusion between stile antico and espressivo operatic high baroque, often leaning more to the latter).

So while this late focus on one rather particular genre is certainly remarkable, it's actually only one aspect of a composer who was more versatile in his younger years and wrote (albeit very few) extraordinary pieces in a very different genre and style.

There's a recording of D. Scarlatti sonatas by Andrea Marcon, using a suitable Italian organ. He argues (if I remember right) that the sonatas he's chosen may date from a period before AS was churning out sonatas for the princess, when he was a church organist. I'm afraid that all I hear are picturesque and brilliant organ pieces. But it's outstanding playing from Marcon, and I'm glad to have heard it once.

Kirkpatrick claims that when he was working for the princess (whatever her name was, I've forgotten), towards the end the lady became too fat to cross her hands, so AS couldn't write brilliant music stuffed with effects any more. He says that these late sonatas are more reflective than the earlier ones, more internal and more full of feeling (roughly, I'll get the book out later and check what he actually says, but I think it's along those lines.) Unfortunately I must be a pig, because I don't hear a major difference between the late ones and the rest.

The "deepest" Scarlatti performers I know are Leonhardt and Vartolo. But I suspect a lot remains unknown about Scarlatti and there may be harmonic ideas in the sonatas waiting to be revealed by performances on appropriate instruments appropriately tuned. There's a recording of sonatas by Jacqueline Ogeil using a really tastily tuned Christofori and an organ which is really suggestive.

[Brahmsian]

I am considering Scott Ross' complete set of Scarlatti's sonatas (wanting harpsichord, not fortepiano nor piano).  Currently on sale at $76 CDN at Presto Classical.

Yay or nay?   

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Erato/2564629945

[Scion7]

That's a lot of music from a single performer.  I have done it on occassion, but rarely - I ask around and read reviews for individual performances.  Do you already have some of the sonatas done by other people?

[Brahmsian]

That's a lot of music from a single performer.  I have done it on occassion, but rarely - I ask around and read reviews for individual performances.  Do you already have some of the sonatas done by other people?

Nope, I do not!  I've only heard a few sonatas (harpsichord) by Scarlatti, through film (undocumented who was the performer), but was mesmorized!

I've done the cold turkey plunge before with great results (Miaskovsky symphonies and quartets), without having heard a single note of the composers' music.