Does Star Wars soundtrack count as classical music?

[amw]

It's a soundtrack. It's not classical music if you listen to it while watching the film; it is classical music if you listen to it performed by a classical orchestra without the film. But "soundtrack" works pretty well as a genre I think.

I think it's kind of boring, but film composers are under a lot of pressure, usually having to produce the equivalent of a Mahler symphony worth of music in just a few weeks—they're not all going to be winners. Perhaps it has to be heard in context. I've never watched the films.

[Ken B]

I've never watched the films.

The first one is fun. Skip the rest.

[71 dB]

The first one is fun. Skip the rest.

Skip the rest? Well, some people just don't understand Star Wars and I don't understand such people, simple as that.

[jochanaan]

It's a soundtrack. It's not classical music if you listen to it while watching the film; it is classical music if you listen to it performed by a classical orchestra without the film. But "soundtrack" works pretty well as a genre I think.

And yet, the music is the same...

I think it's kind of boring, but film composers are under a lot of pressure, usually having to produce the equivalent of a Mahler symphony worth of music in just a few weeks—they're not all going to be winners....

What's amazing is just how good some of that music is!

[amw]

And yet, the music is the same...

It's a cliché, but genre is performance.

[vandermolen]

'Parade of the Ewoks' actually.

Does Prokofiev's 'Love of Three Oranges' count as classical music? Does classical music cease to count as classical music when you borrow it?

Thanks. My answer would be yes and no to your questions.

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Digging up this thread. I think one of the most innovative compositions in Williams's career is Anakin's theme from Phantom menace ost. The way he subtly manages to put part of imperial march in there without it sounding forced... it sends shivers down my spine.

Referring to my earlier post: I actually think that Anakin's theme is in itself a clever major-key variation from Imperial March. John Williams's compositions clearly have some depth.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Referring to my earlier post: I actually think that Anakin's theme is in itself a clever major-key variation from Imperial March. John Williams's compositions clearly have some depth.

Relatively speaking, so does a 1-foot deep swimming pool, in that a little child can drown in it.

[Jo498]

I think it's kind of boring, but film composers are under a lot of pressure, usually having to produce the equivalent of a Mahler symphony worth of music in just a few weeks—they're not all going to be winners. Perhaps it has to be heard in context. I've never watched the films.

Skip them. I never saw the newer ones;  I was a little too young (or my parents too strict) for the early 80s ones, saw them much later on TV/VCR when I was in my 20s in the 1990s and I'd go so far to state that the music is among the better aspects of them. Because it is well done and catchy.
Star Wars is probably something one is either a rabid fan of almost immediately or just cannot take seriously at all. And for merely ironic appreciation they are not hilarious enough...

[Mirror Image]

Star Wars is probably something....or just cannot take seriously at all.

Considering Star Wars is a work of fiction, it's not supposed to be taken seriously. Is Jurassic Park or The Terminator supposed to be taken seriously as well? Come on, just lighten up a little.

[Jo498]

It's about taking it seriously as a piece of fiction or art. I have no problem with obviously "light" comical artworks, say, Wodehouse or Chaplin, neither with entertainment. But what I recall from the first three movies is quite pretentious, cheesy stuff, frequently involuntarily comical.

Apparently, it was fairly original and spectacular in the visual effects in the late 1970s, but as I said I am too young for that and apparently was too old when I watched that stuff for the first time to become anything but faintly amused, among other things because they felt so obviously dated only 15 years or so after they had come out. And, unlike some of the 60s/70s Bond movies it is not sufficiently over-the-top and self-ironic to be funny either (although I am not quite sure about that, maybe it's just not my kind of humor).

Anyway, everybody can do as he pleases but I still cannot recommend amw to watch that stuff only because it is hugely popular or "iconic". And the other point was that the music is quite decent for a movie score and certainly not worse than the movies themselves (again, I have not seen the more recent ones and probably never will).

[Purusha]

Skip the rest? Well, some people just don't understand Star Wars and I don't understand such people, simple as that.

You don't have to, since trying to "understand" Star Wars is like trying to "understand" He-man. I.E., there's nothing really to understand, it is just people hanging on some childhood experience and thinking their nostalgia is synonymous with actual artistic criticism.

Also, the information you've been given is wrong, since the second one is quite obviously the "best".

As for John Williams, i voted no, mostly because his "serious" work doesn't measure up. I think he is a fine musician and i don't have any prejudice against him simply because he is a pop icon. He is an excellent melodist and a gifted orchestrator and i can certainly see why his music is popular but that has nothing to do with whether his works are fit to be ranked along side those of Bach, or Beethoven, which is what people mean when they ask whether he is a "classical" composer in the first place. They certainly aren't thinking about Salieri here, or other supposedly "classical" musicians one might well rank to be below Williams.

[Karl Henning]

Apparently, it was fairly original and spectacular in the visual effects in the late 1970s, but as I said I am too young for that and apparently was too old when I watched that stuff for the first time to become anything but faintly amused, among other things because they felt so obviously dated only 15 years or so after they had come out.

I think faint amusement is reasonable, and arguably the intent of the endeavor.  With Star Wars (even with its flaws) Geo. Lucas did a public service which is perhaps little appreciated outside its immediate cultural context.

The signature movies of the 70s include titles like All the President's Men, The Enforcer, The Omen, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Dog Day Afternoon.  "Heavy Business" dominated the conception of movies.  Even "feel-good" offerings like Rocky and Saturday Night Fever had their obligatory Dark Corners.

With Star Wars, Hollywood rediscovered the idea that it is okay to go to see a movie, just for a good time.  We can spend 90 minutes without the social Angst!

[relm1]

I am firmly in the camp that believes John Williams is a brilliant composer and the Star Wars series has a tremendous amount of consistently high quality in its music.  The movies range from fun to silly but I love their retelling of old serials and classic myth.

[Sergeant Rock]

With Star Wars, Hollywood rediscovered the idea that it is okay to go to see a movie, just for a good time.  We can spend 90 minutes without the social Angst!

It also re-introduced the idea of the hero and the heroic battle (a concept that took such a beating during the Vietnam era, not only in Hollywood but in real life).

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

It also re-introduced the idea of the hero and the heroic battle (a concept that took such a beating during the Vietnam era, not only in Hollywood but in real life).

Sarge

Indeed!

[North Star]

It also re-introduced the idea of the hero and the heroic battle (a concept that took such a beating during the Vietnam era, not only in Hollywood but in real life).

Sarge

You mean to say that movies like Taxi Driver or The Godfather didn't keep the heroic ideas alive? 

[Karl Henning]

You talkin' to me?

[Mirror Image]

It's about taking it seriously as a piece of fiction or art. I have no problem with obviously "light" comical artworks, say, Wodehouse or Chaplin, neither with entertainment. But what I recall from the first three movies is quite pretentious, cheesy stuff, frequently involuntarily comical.

Apparently, it was fairly original and spectacular in the visual effects in the late 1970s, but as I said I am too young for that and apparently was too old when I watched that stuff for the first time to become anything but faintly amused, among other things because they felt so obviously dated only 15 years or so after they had come out. And, unlike some of the 60s/70s Bond movies it is not sufficiently over-the-top and self-ironic to be funny either (although I am not quite sure about that, maybe it's just not my kind of humor).

Anyway, everybody can do as he pleases but I still cannot recommend amw to watch that stuff only because it is hugely popular or "iconic". And the other point was that the music is quite decent for a movie score and certainly not worse than the movies themselves (again, I have not seen the more recent ones and probably never will).

But as I mentioned, the problem is you are taking it too seriously when its not meant to be taken as such. A work of art doesn't always have to be taken seriously to make an impression on the viewer/listener. For me, the intent of any Star Wars film is to have fun and be entertained. Not everything has to be a work of magnificence and deep emotional thought to get my attention. Sometimes when I watch a film, I don't want to think at all.

No one is forcing (no pun intended) to enjoy Star Wars and you can decry and bemoan the franchise all you want if that's what you want to do. My point is not all art contains depth and sometimes its just about the sparkling, shiny surface and being visually bombarded with special effects than something of real substance. Star Wars allows me to 'let my hair down' so to speak and enjoy something without being worried about whether it's groundbreaking or innovative. I'm entertained and that's all that matters.

[Jo498]

As said, I am not even entertained all that well, to be honest I was fairly disappointed and wondered what all the fuzz was about when I first watched Return of the Jedi.
Am I not also entitled to my taste? Should I refrain from dis-recommending because I am not fond of the stuff? I do not think so.