Sibelius Symphonies

[DavidRoss]

Found a review of Testament CD on music web.............calls the Sibelius 2nd definitive

And the reviewer, David Dunsmore, says: "I would be happy to live with this recording as my definitive Sibelius 2, which is my favourite of the seven."  Exactly!

I'm not surprised when people for whom the 2nd is their fave like it.  I don't like it and the 2nd is my least favorite of the seven (though stripped of the sappy sentimentality, ala Blomstedt, it's more apparently proto-Sibelian than the lushly romantic readings make it seem).

Very interesting for me is Sibelius symphony cycle requires conductor to handle the evolution from the sweeping romantic style of 1,2 then the transitional 3,4 then the more bleak modernist 5,6,7

So you get to follow Sibelius musical discovery/thinking as his style evolved over time......like a diary.

Exactly!  This is one of the things that makes Sibelius's seven symphonies such an extraordinary body of work, for they reveal a remarkable spiritual journey given intimate expression through one of the grandest and least intimate vehicles imaginable, the symphony orchestra.

One of the things that I most like about Blomstedt's cycle is that I think he really gets Sibelius, the man, and has an overarching view of the seven as a unified whole that reflects the man's growth, as an artist and as a human being, and that this vision and understanding guide him in bringing out the essentially Sibelian elements of the early symphonies as well as the later ones--unlike the hamfisted conductors who impose their view of Sibelius as, say, a swashbuckling late Romantic who sort of lost his way as he got older and then just petered out!

[alkan]

I see that the Rozhdestvensky complete cycle has been reissued recently, to very good reviews (interpretation and sound quality).      Has anyone got this set?    Anyone able to make a comparison with the other favourites on this thread?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I listed this as my best purchase of 2010. There's a thread on it:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,16723.msg448484.html#msg448484

[alkan]

Thanks Velimir

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

Sibelius' Fifth- the gift that keeps on giving. There's so many performances of it that have passages that I like to it- and I've just discovered yet another one.

Has anyone ever heard Segerstam's early nineties Danish National Orchestra Sibelius Fifth on Chandos? It of course doesn't have the elevating and compelling eloquence of the '60 Karajan/Philharmonia reading- but the sound quality is absolutely ravishing and the way Segerstam builds-up the climax in the first movement is the greatest I've ever heard (aside from the early-fifties Karajan/Philharmonia- but that unfortunately has distorted, dry monaural sound).

I was blown away recently hearing it at my friend's house. How this slipped through my fingers I have no idea- because I remember buying the Chandos Segerstam symphonies in the mid-nineties and I wasn't impressed- or so I thought.

Well, I obviously wasn't paying attention to Segerstam's Chandos Sibelius Fifth or Seventh!! The reading as a whole is solid- and I like Segerstam's pacing a lot- its very similar to the Ashkenazy/Philharmonia in that respect- but very much 'unlike' the Ashkenazy, Segerstam's climax in the first movement is the greatest and most glorious I've ever heard- Segerstam plays it more like Strauss than Sibelius; but at the same time its not bombastic or intrusive in the least. This is a 'Viking's Sibelius,' perhaps.

Segerstam's Seventh on the same cd has an absolutely drop dead gorgeous last four minutes, again, with the most glorious brass I've ever heard in any performance of the symphony. The strings are beautiful- not Karajan-level to be sure- but beautiful all the same. I think Segerstam's Ondine Helsinki endeavor has a slightly more beautiful blending and phrasing to the ending- but the brass on Segerstam's Chandos performance is supreme. What grabs me about this cd though is how completely arresting the ambient-blooming of the sound engineering is- where you can hear all of the dynamic changes in the textures clearly and with a deep sound stage.

In my view, this is a must-have Sibelius.

Marsch Seal of Approval all the way.

[aligreto]

Sibelius' Fifth- the gift that keeps on giving. There's so many performances of it that have passages that I like to it- and I've just discovered yet another one.

Has anyone ever heard Segerstam's early nineties Danish National Orchestra Sibelius Fifth on Chandos? It of course doesn't have the elevating and compelling eloquence of the '60 Karajan/Philharmonia reading- but the sound quality is absolutely ravishing and the way Segerstam builds-up the climax in the first movement is the greatest I've ever heard (aside from the early-fifties Karajan/Philharmonia- but that unfortunately has distorted, dry monaural sound).

I was blown away recently hearing it at my friend's house. How this slipped through my fingers I have no idea- because I remember buying the Chandos Segerstam symphonies in the mid-nineties and I wasn't impressed- or so I thought.

Well, I obviously wasn't paying attention to Segerstam's Chandos Sibelius Fifth or Seventh!! The reading as a whole is solid- and I like Segerstam's pacing a lot- its very similar to the Ashkenazy/Philharmonia in that respect- but very much 'unlike' the Ashkenazy, Segerstam's climax in the first movement is the greatest and most glorious I've ever heard- Segerstam plays it more like Strauss than Sibelius; but at the same time its not bombastic or intrusive in the least. This is a 'Viking's Sibelius,' perhaps.

Segerstam's Seventh on the same cd has an absolutely drop dead gorgeous last four minutes, again, with the most glorious brass I've ever heard in any performance of the symphony. The strings are beautiful- not Karajan-level to be sure- but beautiful all the same. I think Segerstam's Ondine Helsinki endeavor has a slightly more beautiful blending and phrasing to the ending- but the brass on Segerstam's Chandos performance is supreme. What grabs me about this cd though is how completely arresting the ambient-blooming of the sound engineering is- where you can hear all of the dynamic changes in the textures clearly and with a deep sound stage.

In my view, this is a must-have Sibelius.

Marsch Seal of Approval all the way.

I have no Sibelius conducted by Segerstam but you have piqued my interest.

[Marsch MacFiercesome]

I have no Sibelius conducted by Segerstam but you have piqued my interest.

Happy hunting, aligreto.

I think you'll make out like a bandit with those two.

Cheers.

[aligreto]

Cheers Marsch; just send on those $$$$$$ 

[betterthanfine]

Which is the Maazel set to get: the Pittsburgh on Sony or the Wiener on Decca?

[Brian]

Which is the Maazel set to get: the Pittsburgh on Sony or the Wiener on Decca?

Depends on your taste! Might help to think of the Vienna cycle as craggy sheets of ice, and the Pittsburgh cycle as softly-falling snowfall at dawn.

[Brahmsian]

Depends on your taste! Might help to think of the Vienna cycle as craggy sheets of ice, and the Pittsburgh cycle as softly-falling snowfall at dawn.

I have both, and for me, the craggy sheets of ice seem to please me so much more.     

[Brian]

I have both, and for me, the craggy sheets of ice seem to please me so much more.     

I think you've referred to the Vienna Fourth as...uh...remind us of your expression for it!

[Brahmsian]

I think you've referred to the Vienna Fourth as...uh...remind us of your expression for it!

It was Renfield's expression, but I've borrowed it because I like it so much.

"Pure liquid nitrogen" 

[betterthanfine]

^ Ha, that sounds good. The Vienna cycle is going for slightly less than €14,- on Presto right now, so I might just go ahead and get that one. I currently have Vänska and Karajan DG, but this topic has made me curious about Maazel's apparently great blend of romanticism and detached objectivity.

[amw]

With all the Sibelius discussion lately I've gone back to them a bit more, and am now thinking of getting rid of Davis/Boston and replacing it with Blomstedt (or possibly Berglund/Helsinki, but the Sixth was just too fast when I sampled it... or possibly some other cycle I don't know about yet). It's not that Davis is bad, just that he seems very... neutral by comparison with those two, and I never really listened to him that often. (I'm only really looking at cold/classicist interps right now. Petri Sakari and the Icelanders were in contention as well, but the opening of the Fourth was woefully underpowered, a capital sin in Sibelius)

[Daverz]

With all the Sibelius discussion lately I've gone back to them a bit more, and am now thinking of getting rid of Davis/Boston and replacing it with Blomstedt (or possibly Berglund/Helsinki, but the Sixth was just too fast when I sampled it... or possibly some other cycle I don't know about yet). It's not that Davis is bad, just that he seems very... neutral by comparison with those two, and I never really listened to him that often. (I'm only really looking at cold/classicist interps right now. Petri Sakari and the Icelanders were in contention as well, but the opening of the Fourth was woefully underpowered, a capital sin in Sibelius)

I highly recommend the new Kamu cycle.  The interpretations are very well thought out.

[asin]B012HPXPOI[/asin]

http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies-1.html

[Mirror Image]

I highly recommend the new Kamu cycle.  The interpretations are very well thought out.

[asin]B012HPXPOI[/asin]

http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/sibelius-the-seven-symphonies-1.html

I don't know about that as Brian had some interesting things to say about Kamu's latest cycle:

I've given this cycle a lot of listens over the past couple months - maybe 7-8? - and each time I've been left feeling like it needs to be tackled again, like it will reveal itself more fully later on.

But no.

I hate this cycle. It's awful.

The first initial pangs of uncertainty were when I listened to 1 and 3, mostly good performances but not distinctive, and with occasional bits of sloppy playing that you wouldn't expect from a professional orchestra being recorded by one of the 4-5 best record labels on earth. But today I finally got around to 5 and 6, and they are gross. The orchestra just sounds ugly. The violins at the start of 6 aren't alluring at all, which is crazy because that's the most grippingly beautiful of all symphony openings. Here it's cold and clammy and slimy.

Throughout the whole set, the brass is totally underpowered, verging on useless. The absolute worst is in the first movement of No. 5, where Kamu seemingly has asked them to cut almost all their notes short and project as little as possible. The ending of the first movement is as flat, unimpressive, and disjointed as any recording - ever. It doesn't even merit the word "climax".

I'm about to hear the Fifth's finale. #1 emotion is fear. True, I haven't yet heard Kamu's Second or Fourth. But this may well be the worst Sibelius cycle I have ever encountered.

Sound quality - totally devoid of any resonance or sense of space, as if recorded in a doctor's office - makes matters even worse.

[Brian]

And I highly don't recommend the new Kamu cycle:

[Hah! Here I had pasted my post about it, but when I moved to submit this, GMG said "Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post." and sure enough, it was Mirror Image quoting me in full. Thanks, MI!!!]

[EDIT: Also, apologies to Daverz for the harshness of my language in that quote. You know it wasn't written in response to you, and I'd have had a different tone in dialogue with you, but I'm just saying that here to be sure.]

With all the Sibelius discussion lately I've gone back to them a bit more, and am now thinking of getting rid of Davis/Boston and replacing it with Blomstedt (or possibly Berglund/Helsinki, but the Sixth was just too fast when I sampled it... or possibly some other cycle I don't know about yet). It's not that Davis is bad, just that he seems very... neutral by comparison with those two, and I never really listened to him that often. (I'm only really looking at cold/classicist interps right now. Petri Sakari and the Icelanders were in contention as well, but the opening of the Fourth was woefully underpowered, a capital sin in Sibelius)

TBH I don't like Davis/Boston either. It's a little unfeeling, either in the warm-blooded romantic sense or in the cold-blooded Vanska sense. Neutral may be right.

I have a lot of respect for Blomstedt. The biggest names in "cold/classicist" are Maazel/Vienna and Vanska, of course.

If you go the single disc route, you will probably love the Sakari 6/7 and you might like their 5 a lot too - the orchestra is still smaller, but they pull it off by hook and crook, which is kind of exciting. Inkinen in general is not good but his 7th is quite possibly all-time Top 3.

[Mirror Image]

You're welcome, Brian.

On a related note, I need to revisit Blomstedt's cycle --- now that you guys mention it. The Amazon reviewer, Santa Fe Listener, doesn't like Blomstedt's Sibelius, this almost always automatically means I'll love it.

[Daverz]

Sounds like you had an allergic reaction.   

The harshness of the opinion doesn't bother me because it's a tad over the top.

My opinion is more in line with Mark Stenroos at Amazon.  I thought I would mention something hot off the presses, but for a "classic" set with much better sonics than the dull sounding Davis/Boston, Sanderling would probably be my favorite.  I haven't heard the whole Maazel cycle or the new re-mastering, but love what I've heard, particularly 4.

[asin]B00CLHMJY0[/asin]