Elgar Concerto Showdown: the "Violin Concerto" vs. the "Cello Concerto"

[Elgarian]

Neither piece would be a "loser."

Indeed, there are no losers here intended, I'm sure, by our Honourable Pollster, Mirror Image. 'Tis just a game. But there is a serious point: in terms of relative acceptance, I believe things have changed. I recall a time, a few years back, where not much of Elgar was taken very seriously on GMG, though the cello concerto somehow made it through the critical filtering system. I  fancy that in such a poll as this, back then, the cello concerto would have raced away with victory. These days it's a close run thing. So it's all good, as they say.

[Mirror Image]

Indeed, there are no losers here intended, I'm sure, by our Honourable Pollster, Mirror Image. 'Tis just a game. But there is a serious point: in terms of relative acceptance, I believe things have changed. I recall a time, a few years back, where not much of Elgar was taken very seriously on GMG, though the cello concerto somehow made it through the critical filtering system. I  fancy that in such a poll as this, back then, the cello concerto would have raced away with victory. These days it's a close run thing. So it's all good, as they say.

That's certainly correct. There are no losers here as these kinds of polls have always been a matter of subjectivity anyway. Like you mentioned, I'm truly proud to see the Violin Concerto doing so well. I didn't know that Elgar's music was never taken seriously here on GMG? That's a new one for me. If I go elsewhere on the net, Elgar is held in high regard and, in my view, for good reason: his music is absolutely incredible. Long live Sir Edward!

[Elgarian]

It would have been nice if a recording of that performance from Malvern made it to disc, but that's, indeed, wishful thinking.

Oh if only. But alas, I know there was no recording made. And even then ... you never know, do you? As things are, it was a one-off, never to be repeated experience, with lots of breath-held feedback between audience and performer - palpable in the auditorium in a way that no microphone would or could ever capture.

Btw, I bought that Bean/Groves recording. I like Hugh Bean anyway (his Lark Ascending is legendary), so I'm sure he'll do well with Elgar. Can't wait to hear him in the Violin Sonata as well.

Be interesting to see what you make of it. Be prepared for something very different to Tasmin Little, for instance, who brings a warmth and considered maturity to the work that's quite different to Bean's understated wiry tone. I'm just greedy. I want both.

[Bogey]

Like any other composer here, with the probable exception of Beethoven, each one does well when being discussed or when their musical compositions are compared to their own like on this thread....and given the fit that when these compositions are compared it is more for discussion than "What is better?"  This is why this thread is fun to read and worth being created.  Its when a composer or composition discussion is started and framed in the light of, "I dare you to knock this one off his/her/its pedestal." that the thread usually goes south.  Just my take.  Good thread, John.

[Mirror Image]

Oh if only. But alas, I know there was no recording made. And even then ... you never know, do you? As things are, it was a one-off, never to be repeated experience, with lots of breath-held feedback between audience and performer - palpable in the auditorium in a way that no microphone would or could ever capture.

Yes, that's the unfortunate thing as one-offs like the one you witnessed usually don't get recorded and it's a shame because these types of performances, in many cases, rival even the very best.

Be interesting to see what you make of it. Be prepared for something very different to Tasmin Little, for instance, who brings a warmth and considered maturity to the work that's quite different to Bean's understated wiry tone. I'm just greedy. I want both.

I don't think Bean's tone is wiry. Tasmin Little doesn't have a full-bodied tone either, but this is something that doesn't really bother me as the musical qualities and sheer individuality of both violinists outweigh everything else. It's when their tone sounds like chicken scratch is when I have to turn them off. One huge difference between Bean and Little would also be an obvious one: look at the time that's elapsed since both performances were recorded. A whole plethora of knowledge has been gained about the concerto since Hugh Bean recorded it (in the early 70s if I'm not mistaken). Like you, I like having a lot of different kinds of interpretations at my disposal even if I end up preferring one over the other.

[Mirror Image]

Like any other composer here, with the probable exception of Beethoven, each one does well when being discussed or when their musical compositions are compared to their own like on this thread....and given the fit that when these compositions are compared it is more for discussion than "What is better?"  This is why this thread is fun to read and worth being created.  Its when a composer or composition discussion is started and framed in the light of, "I dare you to knock this one off his/her/its pedestal." that the thread usually goes south.  Just my take.  Good thread, John.

Indeed, Bill. I was hoping this poll/thread would stimulate some conversation and I'm glad to see it's taken off. I'm also proud to see this thread hasn't turned into a shout-match of "Which is better?" as those kinds of discussions aren't good for anyone.

[Elgarian]

I don't think Bean's tone is wiry. Tasmin Little doesn't have a full-bodied tone either, but this is something that doesn't really bother me as the musical qualities and sheer individuality of both violinists outweigh everything else. It's when their tone sounds like chicken scratch is when I have to turn them off. One huge difference between Bean and Little would also be an obvious one: look at the time that's elapsed since both performances were recorded. A whole plethora of knowledge has been gained about the concerto since Hugh Bean recorded it (in the early 70s if I'm not mistaken). Like you, I like having a lot of different kinds of interpretations at my disposal even if I end up preferring one over the other.

These words are very inadequate descriptors of musical sounds. Some have spoken of Bean as thin (which I think I wouldn't like and don't actually hear), whereas 'wiry' seems for me to fit what I hear, to some extent. I think the word doesn't convey quite the same quality to both of us.

You're bang on the money to point out the difference in date: the difference in recording quality alone is pretty marked.

[Mirror Image]

These words are very inadequate descriptors of musical sounds. Some have spoken of Bean as thin (which I think I wouldn't like and don't actually hear), whereas 'wiry' seems for me to fit what I hear, to some extent. I think the word doesn't convey quite the same quality to both of us.

You're bang on the money to point out the difference in date: the difference in recording quality alone is pretty marked.

Yes, there's been a bit communication breakdown (all on my part). I see what you mean by wiry now and I certainly don't disagree with this description. In any case, I love Bean and Little. Both are outstanding violinists and I'm just glad I finally can hear Hugh Bean's performance of the Elgar (as I've been drooling over this one for a couple of years).

[Elgarian]

I'm just glad I finally can hear Hugh Bean's performance of the Elgar (as I've been drooling over this one for a couple of years).

Judging from this comment and one you made earlier about the violin sonata ... do I take it you now have the 2CD set, with the violin concerto and the three chamber pieces? If so ... you must be flying close to Elgar Heaven!

[Mirror Image]

Judging from this comment and one you made earlier about the violin sonata ... do I take it you now have the 2CD set, with the violin concerto and the three chamber pieces? If so ... you must be flying close to Elgar Heaven!

I bought the set, yes, but I don't have it in my hands (yet) still in the process of shipment. In due time, my friend.

[Elgarian]

I bought the set, yes, but I don't not have it in my hands (yet) still in the process of shipment. In due time, my friend.

Oooh, the tension! May the winds blow in your favour in the meantime.

[Bogey]

Oooh, the tension! May the winds blow in your favour in the meantime.

And not blow from the east!

[Mirror Image]

Oooh, the tension! May the winds blow in your favour in the meantime.

Hah!

[Kamisama]

I find it interesting that the esteemed critic Neville Cardus in his "Composers eleven" article on Elgar (published after the war) didn't even mention the cello concerto.  Obviously this was before Du Pre had given her interpretation of it.

"...over a period of only fifteen years, he produced his masterpieces: the 'Enigma' Variations, Gerontius, the two symphonies, the Introduction and Allegro for Strings, the Violin Concerto,  and Falstaff."

[Mirror Image]

I find it interesting that the esteemed critic Neville Cardus in his "Composers eleven" article on Elgar (published after the war) didn't even mention the cello concerto.  Obviously this was before Du Pre had given her interpretation of it.

"...over a period of only fifteen years, he produced his masterpieces: the 'Enigma' Variations, Gerontius, the two symphonies, the Introduction and Allegro for Strings, the Violin Concerto,  and Falstaff."

I still have a difficult time with Falstaff to be honest, but it's growing on me thanks to several fine performances that have been recorded over the years. Boult with the LPO on EMI really makes sense out of this complicated work for me.

[71 dB]

I wonder what it is that makes the CC more appealing to many. I have loved the VC from the first time I heard it 18 years ago. As long as I have been a fan of Elgar's music, I have been wondering why the CC is kept in higher esteem by so many.

I bought the set, yes, but I don't have it in my hands (yet) still in the process of shipment. In due time, my friend.

The content of that twofer is also in the 30 CD Elgar EMI box.

I should listen again Hugh Bean's and Tasmin Little's takes on the VC. My memory doesn't hold the performances long after listening to them.   

[71 dB]

But there is a serious point: in terms of relative acceptance, I believe things have changed. I recall a time, a few years back, where not much of Elgar was taken very seriously on GMG. These days it's a close run thing. So it's all good, as they say.

In the beginning of my GMG membership (the old forum) I tried to champion Elgar with my crazy "vibrational fields" theory. I was considered a nutcase. I kind of stopped "promoting Elgar" at that time. During the last few years Elgar has been promoted well where, so well that I feel like standing aside watching most of the time.

[71 dB]

Good take.  For me, it just came down to a preference of which instrument I enjoy, for the mot part, more so.  Not really a matter of the piece in this case.

This is surprising to hear as the pieces as almost nothing alike. How can it be the instrument when the music is so different? It's like comparing spoons instead of fish soap and meat soup.

[André]

The CC in concert is a splendid work. Boy, does the cellist ever earn his (her) fee here !

I voted for it, although I sincerely think the VC is the greater work. But not by far. What's amazing is that it (the violin concerto) fills its huge canvas with glorious music over a span of 50 minutes. The cello concerto on the other hand is over almost too soon.

Both are among the top 3 of their kind.

[Mirror Image]

I wonder what it is that makes the CC more appealing to many. I have loved the VC from the first time I heard it 18 years ago. As long as I have been a fan of Elgar's music, I have been wondering why the CC is kept in higher esteem by so many.

The content of that twofer is also in the 30 CD Elgar EMI box.

I should listen again Hugh Bean's and Tasmin Little's takes on the VC. My memory doesn't hold the performances long after listening to them.   

I would have certainly opted for the Elgar Collector's Edition on EMI had I not already owned 99% of its contents.

As for the Cello Concerto being more appealing than the Violin Concerto, I suppose the outward emotional intensity of the CC has had an impact on many listeners. Personally, I think Elgar is at his best when there's a tug-of-war between the two sides of his musical persona, but, this said, I still like the CC a lot and it remains no mystery to me why it's more popular than the VC.