Recordings That You Are Considering

[jlaurson]

I have the Karajan Symphony Edition, and at the price quoted on Amazon's site it's a no-brainer. Personally I don't find any of those cycles indispensable.  OTOH all are at least quite good  (Haydn, Schumann, Mendelssohn,) very good (Brahms, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky),  remarkable (Beethoven 1977) or even remarkably different (Mozart). IOW I can easily name a better set for all those composers, but Karajan IS special regardless of the repertoire. Be warned that most of these integrals were recorded early in the digital era and often have shrill sonics.

Hard to compare. As far as the cycles contained in the symphonies box are concerned, I'd suggest that the Mendelssohn cycle should be considered "VERY good" -- easily on par with the best (Bruckner et al.). The only one I like consistently better is Dohnany/VP. And the 77 Beethoven is remarkable, indeed; in a way the apotheosis of Berlin-Karajan: Sumptuous and wholly orchestral according to Karajan's Wall-of-Sound ideal...  but still quick-silvery and witty... unlike the caricature of the 80s cycle. The most "Karajan" of the four (seven) cycles he recorded.

[Parsifal]

I have the Karajan Symphony Edition, and at the price quoted on Amazon's site it's a no-brainer. Personally I don't find any of those cycles indispensable.  OTOH all are at least quite good  (Haydn, Schumann, Mendelssohn,) very good (Brahms, Bruckner, Tchaikovsky),  remarkable (Beethoven 1977) or even remarkably different (Mozart). IOW I can easily name a better set for all those composers, but Karajan IS special regardless of the repertoire. Be warned that most of these integrals were recorded early in the digital era and often have shrill sonics.

My issue with the Symphony Edition is that (if I recall correctly) it has the 1978 Brahms cycle, which has dreadful sound. Very congested, wall-of-sound effect with dramatic gain-riding and shifts in perspective. In the finale the horn is buried in the orchestral texture, then suddenly the first horn is sitting right in front of you with the bell of his instrument pointed at your nose. Karajan's 60's Brahms cycle is by far my favorite, especially the 4th symphony with a deliciously slow first movement.

[marvinbrown]

My issue with the Symphony Edition is that (if I recall correctly) it has the 1978 Brahms cycle, which has dreadful sound. Very congested, wall-of-sound effect with dramatic gain-riding and shifts in perspective. In the finale the horn is buried in the orchestral texture, then suddenly the first horn is sitting right in front of you with the bell of his instrument pointed at your nose. Karajan's 60's Brahms cycle is by far my favorite, especially the 4th symphony with a deliciously slow first movement.

  I know what you mean about the Brahms. I have Karajan's late 70s 80s cycle in the Brahms DG complete edition box. That set is not fully complete despite its claim. But I digress. The sound is as you say congested and it does affect my enjoyment to an extent. Although now I am not very happy about the "shrill" sound Andre has mentioned below.

[Mirror Image]

  I know what you mean about the Brahms. I have Karajan's late 70s 80s cycle in the Brahms DG complete edition box. That set is not fully complete despite its claim. But I digress. The sound is as you say congested and it does affect my enjoyment to an extent. Although now I am not very happy about the "shrill" sound Andre has mentioned below.

Actually, the HvK Brahms cycle in the Complete DG box is his 80s cycle and it sounded quite good to me from what I've heard so far (Symphony No. 1).

[marvinbrown]

Actually, the HvK Brahms cycle in the Complete DG box is his 80s cycle and it sounded quite good to me from what I've heard so far (Symphony No. 1).

  To be honest with you I felt that the clarity was a bit lacking. The sound was muffled if that means anything Don't get me wrong the performances are electrifying! But now I'm confused, Karajan recorded the Brahms cycle in the 70s and again in the  80s?  If so the Karajan symphony edition has the 70s cycle?

  marvin

[Mandryka]

Jaroslav Tuma Bach sinfonia etc.

[Pat B]

But now I'm confused, Karajan recorded the Brahms cycle in the 70s and again in the  80s?

Yes. He also did a cycle in the '60s. Actually he had recorded them all at least once before that, but not what I would call a cycle since they were with different orchestras and labels.

Having only the 1970s cycle and the Decca 1 and 3, I can't speak to what's in the various DG boxes.

[Jo498]

Apparently some considered the digital Karajan Brahms 4th substandard because in a recent twofer (from the series with HvK riding motorbikes and sports cars) they combined the 1978 4th with the digital 1-3.

[Mirror Image]

  To be honest with you I felt that the clarity was a bit lacking. The sound was muffled if that means anything Don't get me wrong the performances are electrifying! But now I'm confused, Karajan recorded the Brahms cycle in the 70s and again in the  80s?  If so the Karajan symphony edition has the 70s cycle?

  marvin

I'm not sure which Karajan cycle the Symphony Edition contains. It's probably the 70s cycle since this seems to be the most popular one and the set that seems to get reissued the most.

[Parsifal]

  To be honest with you I felt that the clarity was a bit lacking. The sound was muffled if that means anything Don't get me wrong the performances are electrifying! But now I'm confused, Karajan recorded the Brahms cycle in the 70s and again in the  80s?  If so the Karajan symphony edition has the 70s cycle?

  marvin

Karajan recorded 1 and 3 with the VPO and Decca in the 60's, 2 and 4 (I think) with the Philharmonia and EMI in the 50's. With Berlin there was a cycle in 1963 on DG (my favorite) in 1978 (my least favorite) and 1985-87 (almost my favorite).  There is also a "cycle" with video and released on DVD from 1973 (or thereabouts).

The symphony Edition contains the 70's, the Brahms complete edition contains the 80's, the early Karajan symphony box set contains the 70's. There is a Brahms cycle in each of the decade complete boxes (60's, 70's, 80's).

[jlaurson]

Just to clarify:
THIS is the 80s cycle:

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1986-88 - digital] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1986-88 - digital] DG

THESE are the 70s cycle:

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1978] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1978] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1978] DG

THIS is the MIXED cycle (1-3 = 80s, 4 = 70s):


Brahms - Symphonies 1-4
HvK / Berlin Phil [1978/87-89]
DG


These are the 60s recordings. I read of a complete cycle having been issued on DG, but I don't find it.
DG, on the release of the 2nd and 3rd claims 1959 - 1965. I think it should be 1963/64; the 1959 account of the First is Vienna/Decca (he also recorded the Third in Vienna, in 1960); HvK re-recorded the 1st four years later in Berlin.

Brahms - Symphonies 2 & 3 HvK / Berlin Phil [1963-64] DG

Brahms - Symphony 1 HvK / Berlin Phil [1963-64] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 3 & 4 [import] HvK / Berlin Phil [1963-64] DG

[Mirror Image]

Thanks for the clarification, Jens. Quite illuminating and confusing at the same time.

[marvinbrown]

Just to clarify:
THIS is the 80s cycle:

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1986-88 - digital] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1986-88 - digital] DG

THESE are the 70s cycle:

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1978] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1978] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 1-4 HvK / Berlin Phil [1978] DG

THIS is the MIXED cycle (1-3 = 80s, 4 = 70s):


Brahms - Symphonies 1-4
HvK / Berlin Phil [1978/87-89]
DG


These are the 60s recordings. I read of a complete cycle having been issued on DG, but I don't find it.
DG, on the release of the 2nd and 3rd claims 1959 - 1965. I think it should be 1963/64; the 1959 account of the First is Vienna/Decca (he also recorded the Third in Vienna, in 1960); HvK re-recorded the 1st four years later in Berlin.

Brahms - Symphonies 2 & 3 HvK / Berlin Phil [1963-64] DG

Brahms - Symphony 1 HvK / Berlin Phil [1963-64] DG

Brahms - Symphonies 3 & 4 [import] HvK / Berlin Phil [1963-64] DG

  Thank you so much for this. I've made my decision and decided to opt for the Karajan symphony edition.

  marvin

[Brian]

Naxos Music Library just added all three of these on Friday:



Anybody heard 'em all? Got any favorites?

[Mirror Image]

Naxos Music Library just added all three of these on Friday:



Anybody heard 'em all? Got any favorites?

Neumann's Slavonic Dances is excellent (it comes in the pink Supraphon box titled Orchestral Works and Concertos). I'm not sure about the other two. Dad has the Mackerras recording, but I haven't heard it (yet).

[Mandryka]

Phantasm Dowland Lachrimae

[Madiel]

There's also a larger edition of this with the concertos and serenades...

[asin]B00E6G23TA[/asin]

I like what I've heard from brief iTunes sampling so far. Compared to my sampling of Abbado, this is just a touch leaner and cleaner. Most of the reviews are good, and if this is fast tempo Brahms well... maybe I like fast tempo Brahms? I'm not sure as I don't know any of the symphonies.

EDIT: I've just seen several extremely strong reviews of the piano concertos performance in the larger box, so maybe that's the one I'm considering.

[asin]B0149KEADY[/asin]

[amw]

Not as sold on Chailly's Brahms as his Beethoven, but his recordings of the serenades and probably one or two of the concertos (don't remember which) are reference quality and the symphonies are at least very good.

For fast tempo Brahms also sample Mackerras, Dorati, Walter/NYPO, Wand and possibly Jochum/LPO (not consistently fast, but fairly contrasty). If it's specifically modern sound you're after though, yes, may as well start with Chailly. Manze and Jurowski also options though I don't know the latter.

[Brian]

The piano concertos and double concerto are extremely good, I've liked what I heard from the serenades, and there are some interesting odds and ends, like alternative endings to symphony movements and a couple of orchestrations of late piano works. I am quite disappointed that the box has the Kavakos recording of the violin concerto, since the Repin/Chailly/Leipzig is one of my 2-3 favorite ever.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Any thoughts on this:



Don't have any of her recordings.