Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[Madiel]

How you could label Trump as an "unknown", and not conclude that HE is a power-drunk narcissist... I'm sorry have you not being paying attention? The man talks about himself far more than he talks about policies.

He appears to label everyone as either great or awful, based entirely on what they said about him. He constantly threatens to sue people based on it.

EDIT: For heaven's sake, the man made himself the centre of a reality TV show and plasters his name across all the buildings he owns, and you haven't figured out yet that he's a narcissist?

[North Star]

Someone mentioned here that there has been much more coverage of the Clinton's, so there is more to nit pick and blow up. I know the type because there have been more than one lying beech in my life experience. She is a power-drunk narcissist who will stop at nothing to get what she wants.

Ambition, the virtue of men, and sin of women who ought to be baking cookies to feed their children. 

[zamyrabyrd]

Are you saying ambition is a bad thing? It's a sin to be wealthy?
Taking away freedom in order to bolster your own is what dictators do.
Otherwise, empowering others truly shares the wealth.
There is a significant difference between the two.
HRC behaves like the dictatorial type.
Creating actual jobs is the other.

[Madiel]

Are you saying ambition is a bad thing? It's a sin to be wealthy?

*bangs head against desk*

Okay, I'm really outta here.

[zamyrabyrd]

EDIT: For heaven's sake, the man made himself the centre of a reality TV show and plasters his name across all the buildings he owns, and you haven't figured out yet that he's a narcissist?

I answered your post before the edit. It's funny to hear this on a music blog where composers, conductors and performers have their names in lights, pictures splattered everywhere, etc. Are they maniacs, too?

[Karl Henning]

El-Trompé to me is an unknown. He could go either way. It could be good or awful.

I have probably insurmountable difficulty imagining that it could be good.

[Madiel]

I answered your post before the edit. It's funny to hear this on a music blog where composers, conductors and performers have their names in lights, pictures splattered everywhere, etc. Are they maniacs, too?

You honestly can't tell the difference between us putting Beethoven's name in lights and Trump putting Trump's name in lights?

No. I suspect you honestly can't. Given that you couldn't see how North Star was saying that admiration of ambition is based on gender, I don't have much faith in your analytical skills at all.

[Karl Henning]

Has it ever been otherwise?

Well, if I had gone to law school, one never knows.  The husband of a co-worker ran (I believe successfully) for local office, and in principle, it all begins with that one local contest.

Now, if I were not an utterly unknown composer, but made — I won't say, money on the order of a John Adams or Golijov, but even half that — being in the financial league to enter Public Service like that, would not be crazee talk.  It's not what I wish to do with my life, but my feet would be in the league 

[Florestan]

Name one other woman who has made it as far as she has in US politics.

Well, looks like she was the only one with (1) unlimited ambition for political power, (2) unscrupulous, target-hitting-only behavior and, most important, (3)the right connections, in the right places, at the right time. I'm sure there are lots of women in the US politics who have (1) and (2) but lack (3). The next one who will succeed in having all three will undoubtedly tread in her footsteps.

[Florestan]

Well, if I had gone to law school, one never knows.  The husband of a co-worker ran (I believe successfully) for local office, and in principle, it all begins with that one local contest.

Now, if I were not an utterly unknown composer, but made — I won't say, money on the order of a John Adams or Golijov, but even half that — being in the financial league to enter Public Service like that, would not be crazee talk.  It's not what I wish to do with my life, but my feet would be in the league 

My question was rather about the US Presidents. How many of them were real commoners, more connected to, and mingled with, the people in the streets than those in the political and financial establishment?

[Karl Henning]

My question was rather about the US Presidents. How many of them were real commoners, more connected to, and mingled with, the people in the streets than those in the political and financial establishment?

Not a great many, to be sure.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I'd have more respect for HRC if she actually baked some cookies now and then. It would be a form of solidarity with the rest of us who don't find it demeaning.

I do not want a president to bake cookies. I will turn to Martha Stewart for that. When John Boehner emailed his Thanksgiving turkey recipe last year, I wrote him a scathing email telling him to stop fucking around and do his job.

[zamyrabyrd]

I do not want a president to bake cookies. I will turn to Martha Stewart for that. When John Boehner emailed his Thanksgiving turkey recipe last year, I wrote him a scathing email telling him to stop fucking around and do his job.

Right, put everybody in boxes. If you're Speaker of the House, you should not cook turkey!
Sounds like a fascinating guy. I'd like to know the recipe.

[North Star]

Right, put everybody in boxes.

Thankfully something you have avoided, saying Hillary should not be ambitios, and should bake cookies, because she's a woman.

[zamyrabyrd]

Thankfully something you have avoided, saying Hillary should not be ambitios, and should bake cookies, because she's a woman.

I'm not going to allow you to put words into my mouth. I never said that HRC should not be ambitious (yes, Caesar was an honorable man). Her ambition to my mind is the poisonous variety with a trail of destruction in its wake. I wouldn't eat her poison cookies anyway but she shouldn't look down on women who do.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Right, put everybody in boxes. If you're Speaker of the House, you should not cook turkey!
Sounds like a fascinating guy. I'd like to know the recipe.

If you don't remember, Boner managed to lead the house for several years and accomplish virtually nothing. He should be called to task for failing to do his job.

[Florestan]

If you don't remember, Boner managed to lead the house for several years and accomplish virtually nothing. He should be called to task for failing to do his job.

I don't know who this guy Boner is, but meseems that there are instances when a politician's failing to do his job is rather to be commended than apprehended. For instance, not having proposed and originated one single law in an entire legislative career is preferable to having fucked up the things with tons of bad legislation.

[zamyrabyrd]

I have probably insurmountable difficulty imagining that it could be good.

That's why I wrote that in such a capacity of political power, DT is yet an "unknown" to my mind.
Of course, there are the checks and balances, restrictions of law, congress and the courts, so he can't do anything he likes.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I don't know who this guy Boner is, but meseems that there are instances when a politician's failing to do his job is rather to be commended than apprehended. For instance, not having proposed and originated one single law in an entire legislative career is preferable to having fucked up the things with tons of bad legislation.

Boner = John A. Boehner, former Speaker of the House, who coyly pronounces his own name as "Bayner."
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/08/01/sides-agree-john-boehner-fail-watch-epic.html
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/25/john_boehners_legacy_of_failure_he_resigns_with_few_admirers_and_fewer_accomplishments/

[Herman]

I'm not going to allow you to put words into my mouth. I never said that HRC should not be ambitious (yes, Caesar was an honorable man). Her ambition to my mind is the poisonous variety with a trail of destruction in its wake.

And in contrast you talk about Trump as the "unknown" who may be good. Perhaps you even alluded to Trump as someone who "creates jobs".

Since the end of the primary season there has been ample research published by various news organisations listing the monumental trail of destruction in the wake of Trump's failed attempts to be a casino and a real estate tycoon. One reason he is so much beholden to foreign special interests (such as Russian billionaires) is because no US financial institution will lend Trump any money any more. His standard m.o. is sucking the money out of a failing business, go broke next and leave the lenders holding the bag.

The other thing is, workers he employs are usually illegal, they get paid badly, because they have no legal recourse. In his building days he used to work with the Mob. When he was building the casinos, he hired a lot of small contractors who never got paid; if they were unhappy with fifty percent off, Trump said, "so sue me", which would mean groing broke for these vontractors.

This is all on the record in media you can access for yourself. It's entirely possible to make informed choices rather than going with gut feelings.