Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Biffo]

What do you all think of Erich Leinsdorf's Mahler?  I've only heard No. 1 with Boston I think and thought quite highly of it but don't see him frequently mentioned.

Leinsdorf also recorded the Third but I don't recall it being anything special.

[krummholz]

What do you all think of Erich Leinsdorf's Mahler?  I've only heard No. 1 with Boston I think and thought quite highly of it but don't see him frequently mentioned.

Was that the recording that included the "Blumine" movement? Or am I thinking of Ormandy/Phila?

[krummholz]

What are y'all's favorite Mahler 10ths? For any of the completions I've only heard the Rattle/Berlin. For the adagio standalone I only have Bernstein. Really do not know this symphony well.

For the final Cooke version I do like the Rattle. My only comparison is Levine, which I really didn't like. For the first Cooke I've only heard Ormandy, but that performance really blew me away the first time I heard it. I do think the final Cooke scoring sounds more Mahlerian, especially in the last two movements.

[Lisztianwagner]

Indeed and I will say that Bernstein is my favorite Mahler conductor overall or, at least, in the symphonies and song cycles, but both of his recordings of Das Lied von der Erde come up short for me. For Das Lied von der Erde, it's still difficult to best Baker/King/Haitink, but certainly there some others that come close for me like Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer and the more recent Connolly/Smith/Jurowski.

About Das Lied von der Erde, I think the Bernstein is very fine, though my favourite version is Ludwig/Kollo/Karajan; another beautiful recording is Carlos Kleiber's in my opinion. But apart from those ones, I must confess I don't know other recordings.

[JBS]

What are y'all's favorite Mahler 10ths? For any of the completions I've only heard the Rattle/Berlin. For the adagio standalone I only have Bernstein. Really do not know this symphony well.

For the Adagio only, I think Gergiev and Tilson Thomas are the best. Both were released as couplings for the Second Symphony.
In the case of Gergiev, it's the only part of his Mahler cycle that's really first rate.
You can listen to it via Youtube here
https://youtu.be/cJEkTW9Ydcg
I think MTT's Second is one of the best, so I won't post a video but tell you to buy it.😈

[Cato]

For the first Cooke I've only heard Ormandy, but that performance really blew me away the first time I heard it.

I do think the final Cooke scoring sounds more Mahlerian, especially in the last two movements.

Amen to both opinions!

When I was in college, I used to frequent a music store in Dayton where I bought music paper and the occasional fountain pen.

One day I was absolutely astonished to see the score of Cooke's completion of Mahler's Tenth Symphony...

...for $12.00 !!!

To be sure, this was back when $12.00 bought much more than today!  At the time I was working for the U.S. minimum wage of $1.40 per hour, but this was such a bargain that I was positive somebody had mis-marked the price.  $21.00 was much more likely, given the price of the (not very many) study scores in the store. 

Yes, I still have it: with the exception of the paper turning slightly yellow, it is in fine shape...not unlike its owner!   

[Karl Henning]

[ snip]
...for $12.00 !!!

To be sure, this was back when $12.00 bought much more than today!  At the time I was working for the U.S. minimum wage of $1.40 per hour, but this was such a bargain that I was positive somebody had mis-marked the price.  $21.00 was much more likely, given the price of the (not very many) study scores in the store. 

There are Timex ads strewn though the Laugh-In pilot ... their luxury watch was priced then at $15.95.


One of these days, I should listen to the entire Tenth.

[classicalgeek]

For the final Cooke version I do like the Rattle. My only comparison is Levine, which I really didn't like. For the first Cooke I've only heard Ormandy, but that performance really blew me away the first time I heard it. I do think the final Cooke scoring sounds more Mahlerian, especially in the last two movements.

I'll second the recommendation for Rattle... I imprinted on his first version of the Cooke completion. It's coupled with a great version of the Brahms/Schoenberg Piano Quartet:



And there an excellent, more recent version (also of the Cooke completion) by the Seattle Symphony (shout out for my hometown band!):

[krummholz]

Amen to both opinions!

When I was in college, I used to frequent a music store in Dayton where I bought music paper and the occasional fountain pen.

One day I was absolutely astonished to see the score of Cooke's completion of Mahler's Tenth Symphony...

...for $12.00 !!!

To be sure, this was back when $12.00 bought much more than today!  At the time I was working for the U.S. minimum wage of $1.40 per hour, but this was such a bargain that I was positive somebody had mis-marked the price.  $21.00 was much more likely, given the price of the (not very many) study scores in the store. 

Yes, I still have it: with the exception of the paper turning slightly yellow, it is in fine shape...not unlike its owner!   

I envy you! When I was in 11th grade, a friend and I took a trip to the Detroit Public Library's Main Branch, where they supposedly had a copy of the score - this was 1971, so I believe it had to be the first version. Unfortunately, it was locked away and we could not even see it from outside a case, much less examine it.

[Karl Henning]

I'll second the recommendation for Rattle... I imprinted on his first version of the Cooke completion. It's coupled with a great version of the Brahms/Schoenberg Piano Quartet:

I'm game to try!

[krummholz]

I'll second the recommendation for Rattle... I imprinted on his first version of the Cooke completion. It's coupled with a great version of the Brahms/Schoenberg Piano Quartet:



And there an excellent, more recent version (also of the Cooke completion) by the Seattle Symphony (shout out for my hometown band!):

I've heard neither of those two versions. This is the one I was thinking of (I always assumed it came before the Birmingham recording):



Rattle made some changes to Cooke's score for this performance - notably, restoring the cymbal crash at the end of II (from Cooke's first version I believe), and joining IV and V via the bass drum stroke, rather than repeating it. In the latter I think he was correct; the former is a matter of taste and may or may not have been what Mahler intended.

[Mapman]

I've heard neither of those two versions. This is the one I was thinking of (I always assumed it came before the Birmingham recording):



Rattle made some changes to Cooke's score for this performance - notably, restoring the cymbal crash at the end of II (from Cooke's first version I believe), and joining IV and V via the bass drum stroke, rather than repeating it. In the latter I think he was correct; the former is a matter of taste and may or may not have been what Mahler intended.

According to Discogs, those Rattle CDs are the same recording. On the other one, they split the symphony between two CDs, and added the Brahms coupling. (Maybe they couldn't put 76 minutes of music on one CD yet?)

[LKB]

What are y'all's favorite Mahler 10ths? For any of the completions I've only heard the Rattle/Berlin. For the adagio standalone I only have Bernstein. Really do not know this symphony well.

Neither does anyone else, so you have lots of company. 

[LKB]

About Das Lied von der Erde, I think the Bernstein is very fine, though my favourite version is Ludwig/Kollo/Karajan; another beautiful recording is Carlos Kleiber's in my opinion. But apart from those ones, I must confess I don't know other recordings.

Von Karajan's is also my favorite, and l turn to Haitink when l want a change.

I've heard a few others including Kleiber's, but l must say none of them impressed me much.

( Corrected an error in punctuation - LKB )

[bhodges]

I'll second the recommendation for Rattle... I imprinted on his first version of the Cooke completion. It's coupled with a great version of the Brahms/Schoenberg Piano Quartet:



And there an excellent, more recent version (also of the Cooke completion) by the Seattle Symphony (shout out for my hometown band!):

Another vote for Rattle/Bournemouth, and for the Seattle recording, as well. The latter is in exceptionally good sound, as are most of the orchestra's recent recordings. My favorite is Chailly/RSO Berlin, again in great sound.

In other news, for anyone in or near NYC on August 4: two pianists -- Stewart Goodyear and Jed Distler -- are doing a two piano/four hands version of Mahler's Ninth at the Catacombs at Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn. I've been to a few of the concerts there, and the venue is unique: actual catacombs, in a long, narrow space with thick walls. Sound is quite good, and only about 150 people can fit inside, so it's intimate.

I can't go, but am mightily curious to hear the arrangement.

https://www.green-wood.com/event/mahlers-9th-for-four-hands/2022-08-04/

--Bruce

[Karl Henning]

What are y'all's favorite Mahler 10ths? For any of the completions I've only heard the Rattle/Berlin. For the adagio standalone I only have Bernstein. Really do not know this symphony well.

I have not yet listened to any of it apart from the Adagio. It may be heresy, but I esp. love the Kremerata Baltica string arrangement of the Adagio.

[vers la flamme]

For the Adagio only, I think Gergiev and Tilson Thomas are the best. Both were released as couplings for the Second Symphony.
In the case of Gergiev, it's the only part of his Mahler cycle that's really first rate.
You can listen to it via Youtube here
https://youtu.be/cJEkTW9Ydcg
I think MTT's Second is one of the best, so I won't post a video but tell you to buy it.😈

Thanks for the recs. I've heard nothing but negativity toward Gergiev's cycle, until this post. I would like to hear more of MTT's Mahler. I have his recording of the 7th with the LSO from the '90s, and it's really damn good actually. (In fact, I like all my recordings of the 7th, with the exception of Klemperer which I just do not get.) I'll keep my eyes peeled for that 2nd. You are speaking of the SFS recording right?



I think I'll plan on listening to the Rattle/Berlin 10th one of these days (if not today). Seems folks like the earlier Bournemouth better; maybe that's the one I ought to have gotten. I'd pick it up as it's really quite cheap but I'm not sure I like Rattle enough as a conductor to own two recordings of his of the same symphony. Oh well.

I do want to check out the Ormandy. It looks great, and I don't think I've heard him conduct Mahler, but I suspect he'd be good at it (as would I expect the Philadelphians to be good at playing Mahler).

Like a lot of us these days, I am on a Mahler bender. But I've been avoiding 2, 6, DLvdE & 9. Those symphonies are special and I'm afraid I may have burned them all out heavily a couple of years back. However I did just pick up the Karajan/Berlin 6th and ought to give it a spin one of these days just to see what it's all about. Kind of a controversial recording for some.

[Sergeant Rock]

For the final Cooke version I do like the Rattle. My only comparison is Levine, which I really didn't like. For the first Cooke I've only heard Ormandy, but that performance really blew me away the first time I heard it. I do think the final Cooke scoring sounds more Mahlerian, especially in the last two movements.

I also recommend Ormandy...but I love Levine too. Both conductors are passionate in the closing pages unlike any others. I think Rattle/Bournemouth is cold here; he completely misses the passion inherent in the music (Mahler's love letter to Alma).

Sarge

[Karl Henning]

I also recommend Ormandy...but I love Levine too. Both conductors are passionate in the closing pages unlike any others. I think Rattle/Bournemouth is cold here; he completely misses the passion inherent in the music (Mahler's love letter to Alma).

Sarge

You remind me that I need to spend more time with this box, Sarge.

[LKB]

Thanks for the recs. I've heard nothing but negativity toward Gergiev's cycle, until this post. I would like to hear more of MTT's Mahler. I have his recording of the 7th with the LSO from the '90s, and it's really damn good actually. (In fact, I like all my recordings of the 7th, with the exception of Klemperer which I just do not get.) I'll keep my eyes peeled for that 2nd. You are speaking of the SFS recording right?



I think I'll plan on listening to the Rattle/Berlin 10th one of these days (if not today). Seems folks like the earlier Bournemouth better; maybe that's the one I ought to have gotten. I'd pick it up as it's really quite cheap but I'm not sure I like Rattle enough as a conductor to own two recordings of his of the same symphony. Oh well.

I do want to check out the Ormandy. It looks great, and I don't think I've heard him conduct Mahler, but I suspect he'd be good at it (as would I expect the Philadelphians to be good at playing Mahler).

Like a lot of us these days, I am on a Mahler bender. But I've been avoiding 2, 6, DLvdE & 9. Those symphonies are special and I'm afraid I may have burned them all out heavily a couple of years back. However I did just pick up the Karajan/Berlin 6th and ought to give it a spin one of these days just to see what it's all about. Kind of a controversial recording for some.

I'm local to San Francisco, have been since 1971 save seven years when l lived in Kansas. As one might expect, I've attended San Francisco Symphony concerts many times, and have heard MTT conduct Mahler in most of the symphonies.

My advice would be to ignore MTT in Mahler 1-4, and seek him out in 7-9 and 10 Adagio. ( In other words, l find his early Mahler forgettable and his late Mahler very worthwhile. )

And by the way, von Karajan's 6th kick's a$$ big time. I've owned that recording since it was released, and the end scares the s**t right out of me every time.