Past Purchases (CLOSED)

[M forever]

I never felt mistreated in general. Life is hard, but that's the point: don't feel mistreated and entitled to everything, just get up and do what you want or need to do. It appears to me that what's behind that attitude of entitledness is a lot of that, feeling entitled to things because life is hard, too hard to go and do some things and achieve something. There is indeed a difference between respect and admiration, but one doesn't have to admire somebody to respect him. I guess we all give some kind of basic respect advance to people around us. But if a person behaves disrespectfully to someone who has something to show for themselves that "earns" respect, then that person has very quickly used up that advance IMO.

I am pretty sure we see that all the same way, more or less. I am sure there are lots of people who you think are just little shits. The only difference between you and me (or people with these different attitudes in general) is that I say what I think about that, and you don't. Which doesn't make either person or attitude more or less "right" or "valuable".

We all aren't as righteous in reality as some of us pretend to be.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I am sure there are lots of people who you think are just little shits. The only difference between you and me (or people with these different attitudes in general) is that I say what I think about that, and you don't.

You would call them little shits over the internet because it is so easy. You don't know what I look like and I don't know what you look like. But if you and I were co-workers and I happen to say: Wow this Harnoncourt dude is totally clueless about Bruckner. He has no clue as to what performing this music is all about. Would you jump on me and say: You ignorant piece of shit ! Blah blah...

I don't think you will. You will give me a lecture on how ignorant I am but you wouldn't resort to personal insults like calling someone an idiot or whatever right?

[MishaK]

I am pretty sure we see that all the same way, more or less. I am sure there are lots of people who you think are just little shits. The only difference between you and me (or people with these different attitudes in general) is that I say what I think about that, and you don't. Which doesn't make either person or attitude more or less "right" or "valuable".

What PW said. And also: yes, sure, some people might not know what they are talking about and others might just be painfully closed-minded. But calling them names achieves absolutely nothing. Or rather, nothing positive. It might escalate a conflict, but it won't make them smarter or you better. In fact it may make some people lose respect for you on grounds of your imperfect socialization, despite your alleged superior knowledge. And, no, I actually don't think some people are "little shits".

[Greta]

Well, I might as well briefly dive in too. 

Words of wisdom again. You should know by now though that I am neither really intelligent nor emphatic.

You are certainly "emphatic".  You meant "empathetic" there rather...and he is actually both, though he makes it quite hard to tell...

Okay, the following is where M has a problem, I think. It is one thing when someone says "I don't like Conductor X's interpretation of said piece, I didn't feel he got this or that element, or I would have preferred it differently, I didn't just didn't "get" the approach", as opposed to saying "Conductor X has no business recording said piece" or "has no clue about said music". That he feels is not giving proper respect. (He can correct me if all this is wrong.)

M doesn't leap out and yell idiot from my experience, talking in real-time, though we have had these heated musical disagreements ourselves. If people have different preferences of interpretation, if those preferences are thought out and explained, then we all learn, which is the fun of this type of forum and making friends through places like this.

For example - so, PW doesn't like the Harnoncourt, what specific musical things does he not like about it? And same for Hector, with Steinberg in The Planets? That is info I personally find interesting, especially in disagreements as it makes me think more critically as a listener...

[marvinbrown]

  I've picked up yet another French opera which has long been missing from my collection: 

 

 

  marvin

[George]

  I've picked up yet another French opera which has long been missing from my collection: 

 

 

  marvin

I bought that about a year ago and have yet to spin it. 

[marvinbrown]

I bought that about a year ago and have yet to spin it. 

  hmmm..... I'm planning on listening to it soon, it is Debussy's only completed opera and after hearing Debussy's very impressive non-vocal orchestral works I am very interested in hearing how he handles opera.

  marvin

[The new erato]

  hmmm..... I'm planning on listening to it soon, it is Debussy's only completed opera and after hearing Debussy's very impressive non-vocal orchestral works I am very interested in hearing how he handles opera.

  marvin

Not too differently; orchestral music with obbligato singing. Moving and touching, understated, none of that testoteronedriven, Italian stuff, but rather downplaying the crucial moments and making them more emphatic (see!) for that.   

[marvinbrown]

Not too differently; orchestral music with obbligato singing. Moving and touching, understated, none of that testoteronedriven, Italian stuff, but rather downplaying the crucial moments and making them more emphatic (see!) for that.   

  Interesting, thank you for that feedback erato.  So I should expect a "calmer" more subtle and subdued work of art?   

  marvin

[Don]

M doesn't leap out and yell idiot from my experience, talking in real-time, though we have had these heated musical disagreements ourselves. If people have different preferences of interpretation, if those preferences are thought out and explained, then we all learn, which is the fun of this type of forum and making friends through places like this.

I suppose that board members have varying reasons for being here.  As Greta said, having fun and making friends are strong motivational factors.  In my case, it's all a matter of reducing isolation.  On a day-to-day basis I don't come across a soul who has a strong liking for classical music.  I could acquire, listen to, and review music 24 hours a day, but the feeling of isolation would still exist.  Being a board member here greatly reduces that feeling.

[The new erato]

  Interesting, thank you for that feedback erato.  So I should expect a "calmer" more subtle and subdued work of art?   

  marvin

Yes. The works climactic moment consists of a single, semiwhispered word. As far removed from Mario del Monaco as possible. Enough said. One of the first compelete operas I ever heard, and I still love it.

[Harry]

Well, I might as well briefly dive in too. 

You are certainly "emphatic".  You meant "empathetic" there rather...and he is actually both, though he makes it quite hard to tell...

Okay, the following is where M has a problem, I think. It is one thing when someone says "I don't like Conductor X's interpretation of said piece, I didn't feel he got this or that element, or I would have preferred it differently, I didn't just didn't "get" the approach", as opposed to saying "Conductor X has no business recording said piece" or "has no clue about said music". That he feels is not giving proper respect. (He can correct me if all this is wrong.)

M doesn't leap out and yell idiot from my experience, talking in real-time, though we have had these heated musical disagreements ourselves. If people have different preferences of interpretation, if those preferences are thought out and explained, then we all learn, which is the fun of this type of forum and making friends through places like this.

For example - so, PW doesn't like the Harnoncourt, what specific musical things does he not like about it? And same for Hector, with Steinberg in The Planets? That is info I personally find interesting, especially in disagreements as it makes me think more critically as a listener...

And that brings me Greta to Debussy! You never actually told me, what you thought of it, and I am emphatically curious about that you know....

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Yes. The works climactic moment consists of a single, semiwhispered word. As far removed from Mario del Monaco as possible. Enough said. One of the first compelete operas I ever heard, and I still love it.

Good evening! I must express my love for 'Pelléas et Mélisande'. As erato says, the music is very understated. It couldn't have come into existence without Wagner, but it is Wagner without the fleshiness. It's pure poetry. If you are open to it, you'll never forget it. Debussy is a master of atmosphere, and his music will haunt you. This opera is sombre, melancholy and utterly beautiful. There's nothing quite like it. This performance by Von Karajan was my first exposure. It still ranks very high. José van Dam as Golaud is wonderful. And the orchestral playing is great. I think Debussy's refined handling of the human voice will apeal to you, Harry.

Johan

[M forever]

You would call them little shits over the internet because it is so easy. You don't know what I look like and I don't know what you look like.

Actually, I do know what you look like, and you do know what I look like, I think. We both posted pictures of ourselves here, remember?

But if you and I were co-workers and I happen to say: Wow this Harnoncourt dude is totally clueless about Bruckner. He has no clue as to what performing this music is all about. Would you jump on me and say: You ignorant piece of shit ! Blah blah...

Strange question in this context. I don't do that in real life, and not online either. I usually first explain why I disagree. Then, when the other person comes back with arguments on the same level, we have a discussion going. When he/she doesn't, but writes nonsense - not content I disagree with, but plain nonsense - like the stuff Hector did and which triggered this side dicussion, well, then you know what happens...And yes, that would happen to you in real life, too. Except I would keep such discussions out of the workplace. I would only have them outside the work environment with friends. And good friends can give each other shit and get into arguments.

I don't think you will. You will give me a lecture on how ignorant I am but you wouldn't resort to personal insults like calling someone an idiot or whatever right?

That's basically the same thing, so it doesn't matter. Calling someone ignorant is an insult, too. Just like making statements which suggest that people who have other opinions are ignorant or idiot, but don't use these words. Same thing. We talked about that in that "Beethoven is the greatest" or whatever thread that was.

Now...let's take a look at you, shall we: aren't you the same Perfect Wagnerite who likes to use elegant and tasteful phrases like "this music makes me want to puke" or "this interpretation makes me want to puke" (or similar) and the same Perfect Wagnerite who in this very forum called a female artist "a whore" or "a tramp" and publically wondered how many guys she has already "done"?

Yes, you are!

OTOH, how many men you guys think Netrebko's been with? THe over/under I think is like 500.

Why? She is clearly a tramp, there is no "ifs", "ands" or "buts" about it.

Now the obvious question is: would you tell her that to her face? Do you talk about women with your colleagues like that? Or do you just say stuff like that online?

In any case, I think it's time for you to change your online name from "Perfect Wagnerite" to "Perfect Hypocrite". You only have to change a few letters.

[Haffner]

Now now...I think he is saying: this piece is EASY! Give me something harder next time.

Does that mean you don't like Mahler, PW? I'm a little surprised. May I ask why? For me, the 9th is a devastating achievement.

[Kullervo]

I suppose that board members have varying reasons for being here.  As Greta said, having fun and making friends are strong motivational factors.  In my case, it's all a matter of reducing isolation.  On a day-to-day basis I don't come across a soul who has a strong liking for classical music.  I could acquire, listen to, and review music 24 hours a day, but the feeling of isolation would still exist.  Being a board member here greatly reduces that feeling.

Yes, that's why I'm here too.

[M forever]

What PW said. And also: yes, sure, some people might not know what they are talking about and others might just be painfully closed-minded. But calling them names achieves absolutely nothing. Or rather, nothing positive. It might escalate a conflict, but it won't make them smarter or you better. In fact it may make some people lose respect for you on grounds of your imperfect socialization, despite your alleged superior knowledge. And, no, I actually don't think some people are "little shits".

Sure you do. You don't "respect" everyone around you, online or in real life, either. You just won't admit it. Or are you an angel or a saint?  0:)

You resort to name-calling, too, BTW. Example:

Besides, mistreating people just because you have been mistreated is not a proper way to behave socially. That is called battered wife syndrome.

Suggesting someone is mentally or otherwise ill or deficient is basically the same as saying "you are an idiot". No, wait, it's not basically the same, it is the same.
Actually, it is worse. Because it tries to hide the insult behind elegant phraseology and it tries to make the insult look like some kind of objective diagnosis. That's as hypocritical as it gets.

Gotcha! Biiiiiiiiiiiig time.  

Time for a name change, too: O Mensch >>> O Heuchler*



*"Mensch" means "man" or "human", "Heuchler" means "hypocrite"

[Brian]

Guys, I've said it before and will say it again, please take this discussion/confrontation to the off topic forum or at least to another thread. This remains, at least in spirit, the Purchases today. thread and although I almost never purchase things, I do enjoy to read it and glean both ideas and recommendations.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Guys, I've said it before and will say it again, please take this discussion/confrontation to the off topic forum or at least to another thread. This remains, at least in spirit, the Purchases today. thread and (...) I do enjoy to read it and glean both ideas and recommendations.

Same here.

[Don]

In any case, I think it's time for you to change your online name from "Perfect Wagnerite" to "Perfect Hypocrite". You only have to change a few letters.

(5) to be exact.