Author Topic: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)  (Read 6654 times)

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Offline Dundonnell

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Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« on: January 30, 2008, 05:06:17 PM »
I recently acquired the new Naxos disc(8.559347) of music by Nicholas Flagello and Arnold Rosner played by the National Radio Symphony Orchestra of the Ukraine conducted by John McLaughlin Williams. The Flagello work on the disc is his Missa Sinfonica(1957) while Rosner is represented by his Symphony No.5 "Missa sine Cantoribus super Salve Regina".

Having previously acquired the two Naxos discs containing Flagello's Symphony No.1, Piano Concerto No.1, Concerto Sinfonica and other pieces I was, to a degree, prepared for that composer's fluent, post-romantic idiom in, I suppose, the Samuel Barber vein. (There is a thread about Flagello from April of last year in the Great Recordings and Reviews section of this site.)

What I was totally unprepared for though was the Rosner. I have been a little disappointed that of late the Naxos American Classics series seems to have focused on a number of composers who are certainly not household names to the exclusion of more music from established composers like Piston, Diamond or Creston. I must confess to not having explored these unknown names. If Rosner is anything to go by however I may have made a grave mistake! And if his Symphony No.5 is anything to go by then I would love to hear more of his music.

What is it like? Well, it is certainly not 'barbed-wire' music(quite the reverse!) nor is it post-modern minimalism. I listened in growing astonishment to what are well described by Walter Simmons in his sleeve note as "gorgeous, powerful, long-breathed tunes", to rich, colourful, modal music clearly influenced strongly by composers like Vaughan Williams, Bloch and Respighi. Rosner is, apparently, an admirer of Hovhaness and there are echos of that composer but I would have to say that there is more variety in the Rosner symphony than I find in Hovhaness, more is 'happening', there is more development.

No, I am not going to claim on the basis of hearing one work that Rosner is necessarily a great composer(whatever that is) but if you like frankly old-fashioned, tuneful compositions a la Bloch or Respighi then I suggest you give Rosner a listen.

Do any of our American members know anything about his other compositions?

paulb

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 05:24:05 PM »
"clearly influenced by composrers like Vaughan Williams"
So is all of David Diamond, nothing more than pseudo Ralph Vaughan Williams.
Here read the bunk N trash Lenny and especially the propaganda Virgil Thomson has to about their comrade David Diamond.
If I want Vaughan Williams , I have his cds on my shelf. Why do i care to listen to some watered down version of the compoers music ::) ???

http://www.peermusicclassical.com/composer/composerdetail.cfm?detail=Diamond

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 03:42:07 AM »
I certainly would not agree with your description of the music of David Diamond as "pseudo Vaughan Williams". Diamond is-in my opinion-a major American symphonist, influenced by Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Ravel, Copland certainly but Vaughan Williams??

And even if he was influenced by VW....I can think of few greater 20th century composers to be influenced by!

"Why do I care to listen to some watered down version of the composers music?"  Obviously, you don't.

paulb

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 04:27:35 AM »
Copland

and of course from Copland. America's composer in folk music.
I'm really only interested in classical music , and folk if its really great. Like some of Bartok, and Sibelius in Kullervo. But american western folk, Billy the Kid, nah, I'll pass.

johnQpublic

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 06:05:38 AM »
I've owned the following Albany disc of all-Rosner for about 4 years:



The selections are all enjoyable enough, but as a whole I can't get excited about him. Now, Diamond, when at his best, is something worth crowing about.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 10:45:51 AM »
Totally missed this thread. Thanks Colin for starting it. I am listening to Rosner's 5th Symphony at the moment and totally agree with your comments. I think that this is one of the best Naxos American Classics discoveries for me. Thanks to Harry for alerting me to it in the American classics thread.

I also do not regard David Diamond's music as Vaughan Williams with water. I believe thqat he was a great American composer in his own right and that his Symphony No 3 deserves to be up there with those of Copland, Harris and William Schuman. The early Braga Santos symphs are more obviously influenced by VW (No 1 in particular), but so what? He also was a fine composer. Bloch and Respighi are also composers whose music gives me great pleasure, so it is perhaps unsurprising that I have enjoyed the Flagello and Rosner CD so much.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline sound67

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 12:05:45 AM »
I've owned the following Albany disc of all-Rosner for about 4 years:



The selections are all enjoyable enough, but as a whole I can't get excited about him. Now, Diamond, when at his best, is something worth crowing about.

Got this CD, too. The music is nice, but the performances are dreadful. Get REAL orchestras to perform REAL music.  $:)
"Vivaldi didn't compose 500 concertos. He composed the same concerto 500 times" - Igor Stravinsky

"Mozart is a menace to musical progress, a relic of rituals that were losing relevance in his own time and are meaningless to ours." - Norman Lebrecht

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2008, 02:52:02 AM »
Got this CD, too. The music is nice, but the performances are dreadful. Get REAL orchestras to perform REAL music.  $:)

The Altoona Symphony Orchestra and the Owensboro Symphony Orchestra! Yes, I see what you mean. No doubt cheap to record but 'dreadful' performances do no service to little known music(obviously!).
Albany is a label which I now find disappointing. They did good work some years ago for a number of composers(George Lloyd, for example) but their issues these days don't inspire me. Recording a complete set of the mediocre symphonies of Don Gillis seemed an extraordinary decision!

karlhenning

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Re: Arnold Rosner (b.1945)
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2008, 04:43:09 AM »
Got this CD, too. The music is nice, but the performances are dreadful. Get REAL orchestras to perform REAL music.  $:)

Absolutely!  It's almost worse than having no recording, to have a poor recording, because it is a document which (in many cases) belies the actual worth of the music.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2008, 05:15:03 AM »
I recently acquired the new Naxos disc(8.559347) of music by Nicholas Flagello and Arnold Rosner played by the National Radio Symphony Orchestra of the Ukraine conducted by John McLaughlin Williams. The Flagello work on the disc is his Missa Sinfonica(1957) while Rosner is represented by his Symphony No.5 "Missa sine Cantoribus super Salve Regina".

Having previously acquired the two Naxos discs containing Flagello's Symphony No.1, Piano Concerto No.1, Concerto Sinfonica and other pieces I was, to a degree, prepared for that composer's fluent, post-romantic idiom in, I suppose, the Samuel Barber vein. (There is a thread about Flagello from April of last year in the Great Recordings and Reviews section of this site.)

What I was totally unprepared for though was the Rosner. I have been a little disappointed that of late the Naxos American Classics series seems to have focused on a number of composers who are certainly not household names to the exclusion of more music from established composers like Piston, Diamond or Creston. I must confess to not having explored these unknown names. If Rosner is anything to go by however I may have made a grave mistake! And if his Symphony No.5 is anything to go by then I would love to hear more of his music.

What is it like? Well, it is certainly not 'barbed-wire' music(quite the reverse!) nor is it post-modern minimalism. I listened in growing astonishment to what are well described by Walter Simmons in his sleeve note as "gorgeous, powerful, long-breathed tunes", to rich, colourful, modal music clearly influenced strongly by composers like Vaughan Williams, Bloch and Respighi. Rosner is, apparently, an admirer of Hovhaness and there are echos of that composer but I would have to say that there is more variety in the Rosner symphony than I find in Hovhaness, more is 'happening', there is more development.

No, I am not going to claim on the basis of hearing one work that Rosner is necessarily a great composer(whatever that is) but if you like frankly old-fashioned, tuneful compositions a la Bloch or Respighi then I suggest you give Rosner a listen.

Do any of our American members know anything about his other compositions?

The Rosner/Flagello CD is great. I play it all the time.

Don't know when you're back Colin but the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned!

Hope you had a nice holiday.

Jeffrey
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Dundonnell

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2008, 01:11:26 PM »
The Rosner/Flagello CD is great. I play it all the time.

Don't know when you're back Colin but the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned!

Hope you had a nice holiday.

Jeffrey

That is very kind of you Jeffrey :)

Yes, I am back...this evening actually, after ten days in Sweden and Norway followed, almost immediately, by five days in London visiting my (great-)nephew. I stayed for two nights at the Cavendish Hotel in Jermyn Street(full of expensive shirt shops ;D) and then three nights with my nephew in Muswell Hill. My nephew teaches(yes, another one ;) disaffected kids in South London schools. He took me to Canary Wharf on Wednesday to see the LSO under Francois-Xavier Roth playing a free concert of music from sci-fi and horror films-great sitting on the grass of Canada Square enjoying a glass of wine surrounded by glowing high-rise office blocks :)
Visited the Tate Britain, the National Portrait Gallery, bought books in Foyles, walked along the South Bank past the Festival Hall, and took a long walk on Saturday through Highgate, Hampstead Heath and Hampstead itself admiring the magnificent houses in that part of London.
Extremely enjoyable last fortnight or so :) :)

Will take me some time to trawl through all the posts I have missed and attempt to catch up with what has been going on while I was away :)

Thanks again for the kind sentiment :)

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2008, 01:33:01 PM »
That is very kind of you Jeffrey :)

Yes, I am back...this evening actually, after ten days in Sweden and Norway followed, almost immediately, by five days in London visiting my (great-)nephew. I stayed for two nights at the Cavendish Hotel in Jermyn Street(full of expensive shirt shops ;D) and then three nights with my nephew in Muswell Hill. My nephew teaches(yes, another one ;) disaffected kids in South London schools. He took me to Canary Wharf on Wednesday to see the LSO under Francois-Xavier Roth playing a free concert of music from sci-fi and horror films-great sitting on the grass of Canada Square enjoying a glass of wine surrounded by glowing high-rise office blocks :)
Visited the Tate Britain, the National Portrait Gallery, bought books in Foyles, walked along the South Bank past the Festival Hall, and took a long walk on Saturday through Highgate, Hampstead Heath and Hampstead itself admiring the magnificent houses in that part of London.
Extremely enjoyable last fortnight or so :) :)

Will take me some time to trawl through all the posts I have missed and attempt to catch up with what has been going on while I was away :)

Thanks again for the kind sentiment :)

Welcome back Colin!

It sounds like you had a great time. The Cavendish in Jermyn Street sounds very posh, as does wine in Canary Wharf. I am preparing to go back to school, so am jealous!

Jeffrey
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2019, 08:52:23 AM »
Thought I'd revive this thread (albeit temporarily no doubt) from its eleven year slumber to identify this interesting, comparatively new release,  as worthy of attention. I'd enjoyed a Naxos CD including Rosner's 5th Symphony and had actually emailed an appreciative fan email to the composer (he sent a very nice reply). Now, there is this new release. I enjoyed all three works on the CD. The 'Nocturne' reminded me, at the start, of the opening of Vaughan Williams's 9th Symphony. It is a powerful, concise, monolithic-type work which, in its more twinkling effects reminded me of Holst's 'The Planets Suite'. The looming presence of Vaughan Willliams's 6th Symphony hovers over the 6th Symphony by Arnold Rosner. It is exceptionally turbulent. It does not IMO exhibit the coherence of the 6th Symphony by Vaughan Williams, and yet, as soon as soon as I got to the end of Rosner's 6th Symphony, I wanted to hear it again. It is chaotic and 'crash-bang-wallop', with an oasis of uneasy calm in the slow movement, and an occasional echo of Ruggles's 'The Sun Treader'. Rosner may not have been a great composer but there is something very worthwhile here:

PS Arnold Rosner died in 2013.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 08:56:54 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2019, 10:10:54 AM »
Welcome back Colin!

It sounds like you had a great time. The Cavendish in Jermyn Street sounds very posh, as does wine in Canary Wharf. I am preparing to go back to school, so am jealous!

Jeffrey
For one moment,I thought ???...................then I saw the date!! :( Oh well,he's happy at the Art Music Forum;and the Adminstrator,no less!! ??? :)

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2019, 10:40:47 PM »
For one moment,I thought ???...................then I saw the date!! :( Oh well,he's happy at the Art Music Forum;and the Adminstrator,no less!! ??? :)
Yes, I miss his contributions as well.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 01:20:16 AM »
Toccata are doing some sterling work for composers these days. I also keep wondering if Somm could become another Chandos?! We've had Sacheverell Coke,Mathias Piano concertos,Joubert's Jane Eyre,Stanford String Quartets (ongoing,I think?). And a recording of Stanford's opera,The Travelling Companion,is in the works! Opera isn't vandermolen's cup of tea (generally....mostly!) but it does make you wonder just what they might come up with,next?!!

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 07:38:17 AM »
Toccata are doing some sterling work for composers these days. I also keep wondering if Somm could become another Chandos?! We've had Sacheverell Coke,Mathias Piano concertos,Joubert's Jane Eyre,Stanford String Quartets (ongoing,I think?). And a recording of Stanford's opera,The Travelling Companion,is in the works! Opera isn't vandermolen's cup of tea (generally....mostly!) but it does make you wonder just what they might come up with,next?!!
OT
I wish that Somm would record Gordon Jacob's Piano Concerto for Three Hands as they have recorded some of his other orchestral works. It's a lovely 'catchy' work.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 09:18:32 AM »
Do you like his symphonies? I had his book on orchestration;and Walter Piston's,I think,when I was much younger,and still had fantasies about becoming a composer! I think I'd read that Khatchaturian was a late starter,which gave me some faint hope. I also remember someone saying that Lionel Bart couldn't read music,either! That really gave me hope!! ::) ;D The only remnant I have left of that period now is the Oxford University Press Instruments of the Orchestra,introduced by Yehudi Menhuin. A cassette & booklet in a slim box. I keep it for old times sake! ::) ;D

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 09:40:50 AM »
Do you like his symphonies? I had his book on orchestration;and Walter Piston's,I think,when I was much younger,and still had fantasies about becoming a composer! I think I'd read that Khatchaturian was a late starter,which gave me some faint hope. I also remember someone saying that Lionel Bart couldn't read music,either! That really gave me hope!! ::) ;D The only remnant I have left of that period now is the Oxford University Press Instruments of the Orchestra,introduced by Yehudi Menhuin. A cassette & booklet in a slim box. I keep it for old times sake! ::) ;D

I only know symphonies 1 and 2 on Lyrita (and No.2 on the defunct ClassicO label). I do enjoy them although the slow movement of Symphony No.1 (in memory of his brother killed in World War One) is the highlight. I'm not sure how many symphonies he composed.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

SymphonicAddict

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Re: Arnold Rosner(b.1945)
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2019, 09:52:05 AM »
Thought I'd revive this thread (albeit temporarily no doubt) from its eleven year slumber to identify this interesting, comparatively new release,  as worthy of attention. I'd enjoyed a Naxos CD including Rosner's 5th Symphony and had actually emailed an appreciative fan email to the composer (he sent a very nice reply). Now, there is this new release. I enjoyed all three works on the CD. The 'Nocturne' reminded me, at the start, of the opening of Vaughan Williams's 9th Symphony. It is a powerful, concise, monolithic-type work which, in its more twinkling effects reminded me of Holst's 'The Planets Suite'. The looming presence of Vaughan Willliams's 6th Symphony hovers over the 6th Symphony by Arnold Rosner. It is exceptionally turbulent. It does not IMO exhibit the coherence of the 6th Symphony by Vaughan Williams, and yet, as soon as soon as I got to the end of Rosner's 6th Symphony, I wanted to hear it again. It is chaotic and 'crash-bang-wallop', with an oasis of uneasy calm in the slow movement, and an occasional echo of Ruggles's 'The Sun Treader'. Rosner may not have been a great composer but there is something very worthwhile here:

PS Arnold Rosner died in 2013.

That is an impressive CD, one of my revelations this year. Now waiting for the recording of the other symphonies.