What audio system do you have, or plan on getting?

[DavidW]

Yes fingers crossed it lasts.

[Daverz]

I told myself I was off this merry-go-round, but I hooked up my tube monoblock amps again, and boy they sound wonderful with my latest setup (measurements for these are horrendous, though.  They are distortion generators).  I run my them directly from my DAC.  The waste heat from these is welcome on a winter day. 



I still plan on selling these off eventually.  I spent about $1k on replacement power tubes for these over the years, and I'm tired of that.   To say nothing of the energy consumption.  So my new project is to measure the frequency response at the speaker terminals to see what these things are doing and then create a digital EQ to get a similar sound.  I suspect they are acting as a very expensive fixed loudness EQ.

[Fëanor]

I told myself I was off this merry-go-round, but I hooked up my tube monoblock amps again, and boy they sound wonderful with my latest setup (measurements for these are horrendous, though.  They are distortion generators).  I run my them directly from my DAC.  The waste heat from these is welcome on a winter day. 



I still plan on selling these off eventually.  I spent about $1k on replacement power tubes for these over the years, and I'm tired of that.   To say nothing of the energy consumption.  So my new project is to measure the frequency response at the speaker terminals to see what these things are doing and then create a digital EQ to get a similar sound.  I suspect they are acting as a very expensive fixed loudness EQ.

Nice.  What make are those?

One thing that should be clear is that tubes add distortion.  Some tube lovers still insist the tubes are more accurate, but the painful truthful is that the "accuracy" is purely subjective preference for the type of distortion added.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I told myself I was off this merry-go-round, but I hooked up my tube monoblock amps again, and boy they sound wonderful with my latest setup (measurements for these are horrendous, though.  They are distortion generators).  I run my them directly from my DAC.  The waste heat from these is welcome on a winter day. 



I still plan on selling these off eventually.  I spent about $1k on replacement power tubes for these over the years, and I'm tired of that.   To say nothing of the energy consumption.  So my new project is to measure the frequency response at the speaker terminals to see what these things are doing and then create a digital EQ to get a similar sound.  I suspect they are acting as a very expensive fixed loudness EQ.

Must admit:  I love my tubes.    And, yes, it's cold here and the warmth is very welcome! 

By the way, how does one create a digital EQ?

[Daverz]

Must admit:  I love my tubes.    And, yes, it's cold here and the warmth is very welcome! 

I probably should have bought one of Rogue's smaller stereo amps so I don't have 8 power tubes to replace every 2 years or so.

By the way, how does one create a digital EQ?

I use Room EQ Wizard (REW)

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

You then need software to apply the EQ in real time.  Some music servers have this built in.  I use the Brutefir plugin for LMS.

[Daverz]

Nice.  What make are those?

Rogue M-180

https://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/rogue_audio_m-180_monoblock_power_amplifier/index.html

One thing that should be clear is that tubes add distortion.  Some tube lovers still insist the tubes are more accurate, but the painful truthful is that the "accuracy" is purely subjective preference for the type of distortion added.

Yes, I'm aware of the higher distortion measurements, though I'm pretty convinced that for push-pull type amps it is not the distortion that makes for "the tube sound", but rather something to do with the big transformers used.  On the other hand, the Rogues have reasonably low output impedance, so I'm not sure that explains it, either.  Maybe it's just the glowing tubes, the cost, and the inconvenience.  

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I probably should have bought one of Rogue's smaller stereo amps so I don't have 8 power tubes to replace every 2 years or so.

I use Room EQ Wizard (REW)

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

You then need software to apply the EQ in real time.  Some music servers have this built in.  I use the Brutefir plugin for LMS.

Thank you for the info; I don't see myself going through all of that however!    I do wish you all the best using it however. 

PD

[DavidW]

So the final component for my hifi upgrade arrived... it is... a cd player.  While streaming is awesome, I decided I shouldn't abandon owning some of my favs in physical format.

[Daverz]

Thank you for the info; I don't see myself going through all of that however!    I do wish you all the best using it however. 

Many AV receivers have built in room correction (which uses digital EQ to fix the frequency response).  It can make a huge difference in cleaning up the in-room bass response.

[Mandryka]

Many AV receivers have built in room correction (which uses digital EQ to fix the frequency response).  It can make a huge difference in cleaning up the in-room bass response.

There's something I've never understood about this. If someone plays a cello or a piano in a room, the bass sounds fine. You don't need room correction. So why should you need room correction for speakers? It must be because the speakers are no good, not because the room is inadequate. It makes much more sense to me to get decent speakers!

[Holden]

From my perspective it's all about reflective surfaces and how they can muddle the sound. This can be corrected with technology. That said, I've always tried to place my speakers and my seating position to get the best reproduction.

[Mandryka]

I think there could be a case for room correction in some odd shaped rooms - corridors, very high rooms etc. - though even there I'd be more tempted to try omnidirectional speakers. And yes, if there are too many reflective surfaces it's a problem, though IMO better dealt with by reducing the reflections than by modifying the signal with technology (bass traps etc.) Recordings have been mastered with care, a room equaliser messes up that studio mastering. Not a good idea as far as I can see,

[71 dB]

So the final component for my hifi upgrade arrived... it is... a cd player.  While streaming is awesome, I decided I shouldn't abandon owning some of my favs in physical format.

My streaming is mostly limited to exploring music I don't know and when something I like comes up I try to get it on CD, because I want more concrete ownership/control over my favorite music than streaming services can offer.

[71 dB]

There's something I've never understood about this. If someone plays a cello or a piano in a room, the bass sounds fine. You don't need room correction. So why should you need room correction for speakers? It must be because the speakers are no good, not because the room is inadequate. It makes much more sense to me to get decent speakers!

The simple answer is this: Musical instruments are typically played and recorded in rooms with suitable acoustical properties while the rooms where people typically listen to music at home are build for living without much consideration/emphasis into acoustical properties.

Every reflection from a surfaces adds color to the original sound. Musical instruments can sound pretty dull played inside anechoic chamber without reflections/colourisation. Good acoustics add "beautiful" colours. Bad acoustics add "ugly" colours. Room correction tries to remove ugly colours.

Both speakers and room acoustics contribute sound quality. You can't ignore either of these. Acoustics is the most ignored aspect of sound reproduction at home, because it's the most difficult to address. The best speakers in the World will sound crap in a very bad acoustics while decent speakers can give very good sound in a room that was good acoustics. Loudspeaker and listening point placement is very important part of this and I consider them part of acoustics, because acoustics isn't a constant, but a function of sound source/listener positions in a acoustical space. Optimazing these one can take a best out of a bad room acoustics and then use digital room correction to fix the rest.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Many AV receivers have built in room correction (which uses digital EQ to fix the frequency response).  It can make a huge difference in cleaning up the in-room bass response.

Interesting.  Some years ago, I looked at getting a Velodyne Subwoofer and remember that if I purchased it, my audio guy highly recommended to me that he should come out and set it up for me.  Not certain whether or not it had an auto-correction or if it was just a case that he knew the program well and what to listen for?

My house, unfortunately, was not well-built for music listening, but I've managed to still make a nice (though small) listening area for me.  Not good for watching movies using my speakers though.  I'd have to physically move them around--too heavy and too many chances to damage them.

PD

[DavidW]

I agree that proper placement and room treatment should be tried first.  When I used an avr and my Kef bookshelves Audyssey was applying some hefty eq.  I then changed the position of the speakers and remeasured and it was perfectly flat with no eq needed!  Not kidding.  I would say carpet and well furnished room, use the 1/5th rule for both listener and speaker and that will probably get you most of the way there.

[Daverz]

There's something I've never understood about this. If someone plays a cello or a piano in a room, the bass sounds fine. You don't need room correction. So why should you need room correction for speakers? It must be because the speakers are no good, not because the room is inadequate. It makes much more sense to me to get decent speakers!

Our ears adjust pretty well to the room sound in the case of a single cello (certainly a piano can sound bad in a room).  Now play a symphonic recording in the same room over speakers and you may notice that in a certain range of frequencies the cellos sound too slow and fat.  That's a room mode (and doesn't mean the speakers are bad).  You can reduce the effect by moving the speakers and your chair around, but some room modes cannot be removed that way, and a particular room may have limitations in where you can put the speakers and listening position.

In my experience, a lot of overhang in the bass muddies up the midrange, so it's not only a bass problem.

Below are the in-room frequency response of my Buchardt S400 bookshelf speakers in their current location and the corrected response.  The uncorrected sound is not that bad because that hump at 90 Hz is somewhat compensated for by a dip in the other speaker.  But with correction there is a lot more clarity and the bass is less thick and heavy.

[Mandryka]

Thanks for that Daverz.

[Irons]

A feather duster an important accessory!

[DavidW]

That thing looks like it was designed to keep playing without skipping even during an Earthquake!  Maybe you could use it on a private yacht during a storm.