Political Matrix

[Todd]

I can't make it any plainer, do you understand the English language at all?

Try again, this is super easy to understand!

OK I'll try make this clear enough even for you to understand!  If you disagree with someone's position or even their facts the civil way to do this to state what you disagree with and what your opinion is, not attack the person you disagree with for NO REASON WHATSOEVER given.  Do you not see how rude and anti-social this is?

Give it one more try.  Maybe it will work the fourth time, because right now it's simply gibberish.

[Teresa]

Are you for real?

However rational and well thought-out you imagine your arguments to be, you give the impression of a raving loon. If you are serious about arguing for your frankly controversial opinions, you must take criticism in stride and not lose your temper. It does not help your case to indignantly proclaim the brilliant intelligence of your posts; you end up looking foolish and silly. Make your arguments, and if you are ridiculed that's tough, but it's incumbent upon you to rationally and calmly explain the logic behind your views, and not demand apologies for perceived insults.

And by the way, this is coming from someone who might be considered a "progressive", so I have no ideological axe to grind with you.

Yes I am for real, what a rather bizarre question to ask.  Like you I am a progressive and a member of the Green Party and I firmly believe we can have a better world by doing the right things.  There are the correct ideas the extreme right-wing does not like, and since they have NO logical counter-arguments, they think they can disprove what they do not like by attacking me.  Personally I think that is very childish behavior on their part.  You will notice that I don't attack back but try to explain my position with more clarity.   

I would be very interested what action would make me appear to be a raving loon?  As this is the very opposite of my intentions.  If it is the way I have worded something, let me know what it is and I will try to revise it to make the meaning clearer. 

The only one of my opinions that could be even considered controversial is the coming of artificial wombs eliminating pregnancy as we know it and I provided links.  Personally I think this is the biggest blessing to women.

I am willing to take criticism for my views and even spend the time to further clarify them, but I draw the line at personal attacks.  That is just NOT acceptable.

I am a writer and some of my best stuff has been in this thread in the last few days, if this thread keeps going I just might have enough to write a book.  I am very proud of my posts in this thread, they are IMHO brilliantly  intelligent!  They draw all the issues of this thread together into perfect sense. 

[Philoctetes]

I am a writer and some of my best stuff has been in this thread in the last few days, if this thread keeps going I just might have enough to write a book.  I am very proud of my posts in this thread, they are IMHO brilliantly  intelligent!  They draw all the issues of this thread together into perfect sense.

You should have quite while you were ahead.

[Todd]

You should have quite while you were ahead.

When was "she" ever ahead?

[Teresa]

Give it one more try.  Maybe it will work the fourth time, because right now it's simply gibberish.

It is not gibberish but EXTREMELY CLEAR AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND the problem is in your understanding of English.

I am not here to teach you the English language.  Have your wife read it, or even one of your kids and maybe they can explain it to you.   

[Philoctetes]

When was "she" ever ahead?

She got to confident in her trolling abilities.

[Teresa]

When was "she" ever ahead?

It least I have a clue and KNOW what I believe and can clearly articulate my positions.  You evidently have trouble with the English language. 

[Todd]

It is not gibberish but EXTREMELY CLEAR AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND the problem is in your understanding of English.

I am not here to teach you the English language.  Have your wife read it, or even one of your kids and maybe they can explain it to you.

Nope, that's no better.  Well, keep on trying, maybe one day you'll make sense.

[Teresa]

You should have quite while you were ahead.

I am ahead, there is some fantastic writing in this thread that will be reused later.  Nothing is better than giving a writer material.  I guess I should say thanks to my attackers but I am still angry with their childish behavior. 

[Teresa]

Nope, that's no better.  Well, keep on trying, maybe one day you'll make sense.

I made perfect sense, the trouble is on the receiving end, to clarify since you are playing dumb that would be your end.  Save the post, maybe you will understand it when you grow up?

[knight66]

  Nothing is better than giving a writer material.

I agree, your list of quotable quotes just grows and grows. I gather them like a squirrel gathers nuts.

I see you ascribe to the ancient Roman view that a baby is not a baby until it is outside of the womb. In your view that restricts the rights involved to those of the mother; as the child is dependent on it.

But if the mother is dependent on her partner to keep a roof over her head, or food coming in, or to pay for her medicine.....still that man has no rights over his child.

Of course, the frequent error here is the claim that it is the woman's body. There is an unborn child there too. It has rights; but not a strident voice in which they can be made clear.

Mike

[Bulldog]

I am ahead, there is some fantastic writing in this thread that will be reused later.

Have you considered a ban on bragging?

[71 dB]

We were not as close as I thought we would be. 
My economic score was -8.65 yours -5.16
My social score was -6.09 yours -5.22

You were pegged as economically leftist I was pegged as economically socialist

We were both pegged as socially libertarian.

I don't think our economical thoughts are that different if we both think in a "green way". It's all about how we weight things. Or is there a difference? Is The Green Party in USA a substitute of a real left-wing party? In Finland we do have "real" left wing parties, so The Greens don't have to fill that hole. For me to be Green doesn't mean to be a leftist. It means to be ahead of others. I want to take the best ideas from left and right for the best possible results.

Remember, these questions were for American people from an American point of view. I tried to translate my Finnish point of view to American point of view. For example, minimum wage isn't such an issue in Finland that it is in US.

Our real difference is in banning porn and violence, not in economical issues. Also, I am an atheist and against religion.

[Teresa]

I don't think our economical thoughts are that different if we both think in a "green way". It's all about how we weight things. Or is there a difference? Is The Green Party in USA a substitute of a real left-wing party? In Finland we do have "real" left wing parties, so The Greens don't have to fill that hole. For me to be Green doesn't mean to be a leftist. It means to be ahead of others. I want to take the best ideas from left and right for the best possible results.

Remember, these questions were for American people from an American point of view. I tried to translate my Finnish point of view to American point of view. For example, minimum wage isn't such an issue in Finland that it is in US.

Our real difference is in banning porn and violence, not in economical issues. Also, I am an atheist and against religion.

It is possible I clicked the box "This is a critical issue to me" more often than you did.  And yes I answered in the affirmative on the minimum wage.  The Green Party is of the left, but the USA has many left-wing parties.  However it is much beyond left, I call it "up" politically because it is the only party that takes into account mankind's relationship to the earth.  Full political and economic rights for citizens with respect for the planet we live on.

From Platform of the Greens/Green Party USA

"The Greens carry forward the traditional values of the Left: freedom, equality, and solidarity. We want to create a truly democratic society without class exploitation or social domination. But Greens expand this notion of a classless, nonhierarchical society that is harmonized with itself to include an ecological society that is harmonized with nature as well."

Here is the Green Party's stand on Nonviolence

"It is essential that we develop effective alternatives to our current patterns of violence at all levels, from the family and the streets, to nations and the world. We will work to demilitarize our society and eliminate weapons of mass destruction, without being naive about the intentions of other governments. We recognize the need for self-defense and the defense of others who are in helpless situations. We promote nonviolent methods to oppose practices and policies with which we disagree, and will guide our actions toward lasting personal, community and global peace."

As you can see they offer no opinion on violence in movies, music and entertainment.  My opinions on banning pornography and violence are my own based as how safer and saner American society was in the 1960's - 1970's before the Porn Industry got a stronghold. 

I remember when there were no X-rated movies and R-rated movies were extremely rare, when there were no adult bookstores.  Then Playboy came out, it was quite shocking however it was very, very mild compared to the adult magazines of today.  Before Playboy, guys would look at the African topless ladies in National Geographic.

I remember when there was clean, beautiful and enjoyable music. 

Most of the music I listen to is classic rock and instrumental Classical music.  So much of modern music is sick in the extreme.  With movies I have learned to avoid R rated movies, if they are not polluted with graphic sex then the violence is extreme and often very bloody.  Most of my favorite movies are G or PG, although I do own some Science-Fiction movies that are PG-13. 

Some say that violent movies help people work out their aggression so they do not do the violent acts themselves.  However I believe the effect is just the opposite, that they actually give criminals ideas for their next crimes.  That is why I believe they are unsafe for society.  The same with sex movies, most sex criminals caught have a stash of pornography. 

The Green Party does not have an official policy on Porn although they do support feminism, and most feminist are anti-porn as it objectifies a woman's body and turns us into sex objects. 

The Green Party USA is open to all religious groups as well as agnostics and atheists, so I am sure it is the same as Finland's in this regard. 

[jowcol]

Join the war against violence.

[Gurn Blanston]

I don't think our economical thoughts are that different if we both think in a "green way". It's all about how we weight things. Or is there a difference? Is The Green Party in USA a substitute of a real left-wing party? In Finland we do have "real" left wing parties, so The Greens don't have to fill that hole. For me to be Green doesn't mean to be a leftist. It means to be ahead of others. I want to take the best ideas from left and right for the best possible results.

Remember, these questions were for American people from an American point of view. I tried to translate my Finnish point of view to American point of view. For example, minimum wage isn't such an issue in Finland that it is in US.

Our real difference is in banning porn and violence, not in economical issues. Also, I am an atheist and against religion.

Nah, just admit it, Poju; you 2 were made for each other. I've realized it since Teresa first came out of the closet. Sure, little differences in minor details (god:no god for example), but nothing that a good healthy couple of hours in the sauna won't take care of. Let us know how that works out, eh? 

[DavidRoss]

We were not as close as I thought we would be. 
My economic score was -8.65 yours -5.16
My social score was -6.09 yours -5.22

You were pegged as economically leftist I was pegged as economically socialist

We were both pegged as socially libertarian.

And jolly old "Papa" Joe Stalin scored -7.24, -5.66 ... just slightly to the right of Teresa.  Everyone will be happy and gay in Teresa's workers' paradise, the tooth fairy will hand out treats every night, the Easter bunny comes every week, and with Santa Claus as the Commissar, even "Re-Education" camps will be fun!

[(poco) Sforzando]

It is not gibberish but EXTREMELY CLEAR AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND the problem is in your understanding of English.

I am not here to teach you the English language.  Have your wife read it, or even one of your kids and maybe they can explain it to you.

You might try learning the proper use of the semicolon.

[jhar26]

From Platform of the Greens/Green Party USA

"The Greens carry forward the traditional values of the Left: freedom, equality, and solidarity. We want to create a truly democratic society without class exploitation or social domination. But Greens expand this notion of a classless, nonhierarchical society that is harmonized with itself to include an ecological society that is harmonized with nature as well."

Here is the Green Party's stand on Nonviolence

"It is essential that we develop effective alternatives to our current patterns of violence at all levels, from the family and the streets, to nations and the world. We will work to demilitarize our society and eliminate weapons of mass destruction, without being naive about the intentions of other governments. We recognize the need for self-defense and the defense of others who are in helpless situations. We promote nonviolent methods to oppose practices and policies with which we disagree, and will guide our actions toward lasting personal, community and global peace." ¨

That's an almost perfect description of what I believe in myself. 

As you can see they offer no opinion on violence in movies, music and entertainment. 

I don't think that the problem is so much that there's violence in movies, music and entertainment. The arts have always reflected, and are even supposed to reflect what's going on in society. I think where we have gone overboard recently though is the GLORYFICATION of violence. Popular music in the 60's and 70's dealt with violence and wars and what have you, but peace and love was usually presented as the answer. Today violence is often presented as a viable - even an ideal way to solve disputes. With making violence 'cool' and 'hip' some popular music stands for the exact opposite of what it used to. But although I agree with you on this issue I'm also suspicious about figures of authority deciding for you, me and the rest of us what we are and are not allowed to see and hear. So I guess I'm more in favor of changing people's minds through the means of communication than to force things upon them. You will say that this is naive, and you are right. But I like the alternative even less.

I especially agree with you about the violence against and the (s)exploitation of women. I'm in two minds about the abortion issue. Emotionally I support a woman's right to choose. On the other hand, there is no reason why a woman should get pregnant if she doesn't want it these days since there are ways to prevent that from happening.

[DavidRoss]

Except the 2008 financial collapse was caused in large part by government action, with Congress putting pressure on Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac to encourage more loans to the lower class demographic.  This resulted in irresponsible lending practices since the mortgage brokers simply passed along the risk to FM/FM - which over leveraged them well beyond their capacity to deal with the potential losses.

Regarding deregulation in general, it is a profound reality that markets work best with as little as possible manipulation by outside agents (of which government is the largest) and as much information possible readily available.  Most attempts to control the economy are futile since the variables at play are numerous and subtle, and the opportunity for unintended consequences much more likely than beneficial results so that the best and brightest within (and without) government reliably bring about financial crisis after crisis in the quest for economic stability.

By the way, it's nice to see that you and a few others here understand the root cause of the financial meltdown.  It's not hard to understand, if you're paying attention and not just guzzling down the spin of the culprits busy pointing the finger everwhere else, and NOW claiming to be fixing the system that had been working pretty well until they f*cked it up.  If there's any justice after this life, Dodd and Franks will be cleaning toilets in Hell.

The Subprime Crisis: Cause, Effect, and Consequences,