Suggestions for a Newbie

[bigshot]

"there are various avenues (not necessarily illegal ) where one can access a lot of music for very little or no money at all."

Boy! I need to know about that myself! After over 15,000 LPs and almost as many CDs, I've spent a heck of a lot of money on music. Now I find out I've been doing it wrong! Aargh!

[Bulldog]

"It does seem rather limiting with all those romantic-era compositions"

I'm going to be laughing about that line all day!

I like making people happy.

[Opus106]

"there are various avenues (not necessarily illegal ) where one can access a lot of music for very little or no money at all."

Boy! I need to know about that myself! After over 15,000 LPs and almost as many CDs, I've spent a heck of a lot of money on music. Now I find out I've been doing it wrong! Aargh!

I only said that everyone new to the music may not be willing to put in that much. There's nothing wrong about it, splurge all you want.

[bhodges]

I only said that everyone new to the music may not be willing to put in that much. There's nothing wrong about it, splurge all you want.

That's what I was going to add. I think amassing a collection of recordings is fine, and for sonics, ideal.

But in 2011, if I were pointing someone (especially younger) toward samples of different music, composers, artists, etc., I'd suggest YouTube!

E.g., just finished listening to a fantastic performance of Lutoslawski's Cello Concerto (with surprisingly "present" sound, considering what is sometimes found on the site), with a terrific young cellist whom I'd never heard of. If a cello enthusiast came to me for recommendations, I'd point him/her to that in a millisecond.

--Bruce

[Bulldog]

That's what I was going to add. I think amassing a collection of recordings is fine, and for sonics, ideal.

But in 2011, if I were pointing someone (especially younger) toward samples of different music, composers, artists, etc., I'd suggest YouTube!
--Bruce

Yes, YouTube and other websites are great sources for a new listener.

When I was a kid back in the 1950's, I didn't have the benefit of a computer or websites.  However, I would take public transportation to the Boston Public Library which had a ton of recordings and some listening booths.  I'd try out different recordings and take home those I found appealing.  As it happened, I found composers such as Shostakovich the best for me at that time.  My dad, who preferred the usual romantic era suspects, didn't care for my selections - I got a big kick out of that. 

[bigshot]

"I only listen to 1700-1900"

You should make a list of what you'd consider core repertoire for 1700-1800. I know I'd find it useful to fill in some gaps in my collection. I've taken the shotgun approach to that period... By picking up all of the more obvious works then supplementing it with giant box sets of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, etc. It's worked well for me, but everyone can always use a list of hot tips to check out.

Maybe someday I'll get through all those box sets... But there's a certain comfort in knowing that there are still CDs on the shelf you haven't listened to yet. Gotta prepare for those rainy days!

One other thing I discovered that I'm sure evokes gasps of horror from the hoi polloi is the Franklin Mint series of LPs titled "The 100 Greatest Recordings of All Time". What a great title! The thing is, it actually does a fairly decent job of living up to it. Each of the 100 boxes has two LPs of material from various labels pressed on high quality virgin red vinyl. They also include books with extensive liner notes on the composers and works. No bleeding chunks- complete works. In the day, these albums cost over $50 apiece, but today they sell on eBay for $2 a disk. Most of them were acquired by rich people who never played them, so it's a great source for immaculate pressings without having to count eyes on the logo or squint at the numbers in the runoff groove. For newbies with a turntable, it's a cheap gold mine.

OK... I said "Franklin Mint". Go ahead and mock me now folks. I'm a big boy. I can take it!

[Marc]

Yes, YouTube and other websites are great sources for a new listener.

When I was a kid back in the 1950's, I didn't have the benefit of a computer or websites.  However, I would take public transportation to the Boston Public Library which had a ton of recordings and some listening booths.  I'd try out different recordings and take home those I found appealing.  As it happened, I found composers such as Shostakovich the best for me at that time.  My dad, who preferred the usual romantic era suspects, didn't care for my selections - I got a big kick out of that.

Ha! Libraries!
I still use them, you know.

Topic duty: although I myself immediately got hooked on Bach at the age of 12, in most cases I advice to grab some Rossini Ouvertures and the Carmina Burana by Orff. In mose cases, people were happy with that.

[Szykneij]

Yes, YouTube and other websites are great sources for a new listener.

When I was a kid back in the 1950's, I didn't have the benefit of a computer or websites.  However, I would take public transportation to the Boston Public Library which had a ton of recordings and some listening booths. 

Blue line?

[Bulldog]

Blue line?

Well, I was coming in to Boston from Revere - don't remember the line but it didn't take more than about 15 minutes.

[Bulldog]

Ha! Libraries!
I still use them, you know.

Topic duty: although I myself immediately got hooked on Bach at the age of 12, in most cases I advice to grab some Rossini Ouvertures and the Carmina Burana by Orff. In mose cases, people were happy with that.

I couldn't tolerate Bach when I was 12.  Now, I would be rather satisfied to listen to only Bach.

[Szykneij]

Well, I was coming in to Boston from Revere - don't remember the line but it didn't take more than about 15 minutes.

Yes --  I thought I remembered you mentioning of Kelly's Roast Beef at some point in the past, so the Blue Line it was!

[Bulldog]

Yes --  I thought I remembered you mentioning of Kelly's Roast Beef at some point in the past, so the Blue Line it was!

My wife and I went to visit one of our sons last summer who now lives in Waltham.  We took his car and visited a few spots on the North Shore.  Had a lunch at Kelly's and it was as good as I remembered.  Of course, the food prices were much higher than 40 years ago.

[71 dB]

I couldn't tolerate Bach when I was 12.  Now, I would be rather satisfied to listen to only Bach.

I didn't know about Bach or classical music when I was 12 (I think around that time I heard the term "classical music" for the first time but I didn't have a clue what it means). ~15 years later I found Bach (and classical music in general). Since then the idea of being without Bach's music has been ridiculous.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Go ahead and mock me now folks. I'm a big boy. I can take it!

What fun will it be if you give us permission?

[Szykneij]

I didn't know about Bach or classical music when I was 12 (I think around that time I heard the term "classical music" for the first time but I didn't have a clue what it means). ~15 years later I found Bach (and classical music in general). Since then the idea of being without Bach's music has been ridiculous.

Young people like Bach. Here's an old post from a similar thread that's relevant to this discussion:

I've worked closely with young people for over 20 years, and even after getting to know a specific group of kids very well, I still can't predict for sure what they'll go for. Just like a random bunch of adults at the workplace or in the supermarket at any given time, opinions and preferences are going to vary drastically.

A couple of years ago, I was lucky to win a case of music sampler CDs on ebay. Each CD was the same and contained short pieces representative of a set of recordings  called "Classical Surroundings". Specific information regarding the compostions and opus numbers was lacking, and I'm not inclined to take the time to look them all up, but the playlist was as follows:

Badinerie / Bach
Rondo:Allegro / Beethoven
Intermezzo, Allegretto Un Poco Agiato / Brahms
Allegro / Danzi
Sicilienne / Faure
Romance / Glinka
Allegro Moderato / Haydn
Serenade / Haydn
Adagio / Sinding
Vivace / Telemann
Duex Preludes Romantiques #2 / Tournier

I gave one CD to each of about 60 high school students as part of a listening assignment and the kids had to pick their three favorites for discussion. Out of the total 180 responses, all of the pieces showed up as someone's favorite and the distribution of choices was remarkably even. The only clear favorites in order of preference were the Faure, Bach and Glinka.

I realize this project and age group was different from what you're going to do with your students, Hornteacher, but I think it emphasizes that variety is the key to finding what resonates with your classes (which must be rather well-off as you mentioned not to flinch at spending $75 for their first set of CDs).   

[bhodges]

Thanks for posting that, Tony. I don't recall seeing it in its original incarnation, and it's eye-opening.

--Bruce

[Szykneij]

Thanks for posting that, Tony. I don't recall seeing it in its original incarnation, and it's eye-opening.

--Bruce

It was posted quite a while ago and it took me a bit of time to locate it. Here's a link to the thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,8658.0.html

[bigshot]

I remember going to the Wherehouse in Westwood Village when I was in college and seeing a big gold box on top of a shelf. It was Karajan's Ring. At that time I was still listening to "Art Rock" (which turned out to be neither of those things) and I had just discovered jazz. I remember thinking that if jazz had turned out to be so unexpectedly great, perhaps there was something to classical music too.

The Wherehouse arranged its classical records by catalog number and handed you a Schwann catalog to find what you were looking for. That sort of arrangement made the stacks of single disk LPs totally impenetrable to me. Stupid system. But that big gold box called to me like the Rheinmaidens' song... I knew Wagner from an old record my mom had of the Liebstod and Flying Dutchman overture, so I determined that I would own that box. I saved up for two months from my part time job and finally got it. The guy behind the counter laughed when I lugged it up to the counter and said, "Another Wagnerite is born!"

I dropped the needle on side one and started following along in the libretto, and by the time the Descent to Nibelheim came up, I was totally hooked.

I think that a lot of kids say that they want to try out classical music, but they aren't really serious about it. I'm sure most people in forums asking for recommendations never bother to follow up on them. They dip a toe in the water and dont go any further. But to the ones that are really determined to jump in with both feet, a box set is no obsticle.

[Grazioso]

The genre I most love is heavy metal, mostly for its passion, intricacy, and musicianship. I like music that displays good musicianship and is well-written and more complex, rather than simplistic. I like music that is powerful.
...
I have listened to some Stravinsky and enjoyed it, mainly Firebird. It's a bit too meandering in sections, but the ending climax is just awesome. I've also listend to Gustav Holst's Planets suite, and really love that, especially the first piece inspired by Mars.

So, where do you suggest I go from here?

The suggestions some have posted of certain Romantic and early 20th-century works seem a natural progression from Holst and Stravinsky and should satisfy your desire for music that is passionate and powerful. What could be more like power metal than the opening theme of the last movement of Bruckner's 8th symphony?

As a metalhead, though, you should also look into Baroque instrumental music: there you'll likely hear the most direct musical parallels, and the direct classical influences heard in metal often stem from that era. (And of course, it should satisfy your desire for intricacy and musicianly fireworks since the music of that day is synonymous with those things.)

Try some Vivaldi violin concertos played on period instruments by soloists like Fabio Biondi or Giuliano Carmignola, and you'll probably be struck immediately by the commonalities. The Classical era that followed should also provide you with some "a-ha" moments. Beethoven, in his more aggressive moods, with his punchy, rhythmic motifs, can sound very metal in spirit. Think of the opening of the 5th symphony and then, say, the opening of "Master of Puppets".

[Palmetto]

I disagree with bigshot.

First, the assumption that what draws people to classical is that they've heard something and want to know more or they wouldn't be here.  There's no single piece I've heard that has raised my interest in classical music or this site.  It's a growing feeling of apathy toward the music forms I'm already familiar with, and a feeling that popular music has evolved beyond my tastes.  I'm here because all my life I've been told how great this music; I'm trying to find out if there's something here that will appeal to me.

Second, regarding liner notes, web research, etc.  Every bit of what we now call classical was at some time contemporary.  Those who first heard a piece had no liner notes.  They may have known the composer's reputation or heard other works of his, but they weren't spending their pre-concert hours engaging in a study of what he'd done or how he'd done it.  They didn't have the tools.  That didn't block them from enjoying what they heard, and it didn't keep this music from enduring for centuries.

I agree that a lack of in-depth knowledge will prevent a new listener from appreciating the nuances and subtleties.  Hopefully that doesn't mean I can't derive some level of enjoyment from this music BEFORE I acquire that knowledge.  If it does, I might as well quit now.  I'm more than willing to start with simple pieces to develop my listening skills, but I'm not dropping $150 and a ton of time on something before I know if I like it.  So far, it doesn't look like I'll need to.  If so, there are other forms of entertainment I can investigate for less money and effort than that.