David Hurwitz

[timwtheov]

Overall an engaging presenter and staggeringly erudite when it comes to the volume of music he knows. Can there be anyone alive with more knowledge of classical music recordings? He is particularly useful in exploring more obscure composers. His blind spots are often bizarre (eg he finds the St Matthew Passion boring, thinks Sullivan is the greatest English composer and completely misses the whole point about lieder) but we all have similar aesthetic shortcomings.
I feel his channel would be improved if he allowed more discussion rather than deleting anything which riles him.

I tend to agree with this assessment. I'd been a long time reader of ClassicsToday (particularly when it was all free) after reading Beethoven or Bust many years ago. I was therefore used to Hurwitz's preferences (generally fast, intense performances of his favorite romantic, post-romantic, and modernist era works, American orchestras, etc.) and antipathies (slow performances, poor-sounding historical performances, the British music press, Rattle and Norrington, some parts of the historically informed performance world, etc.). However, I mostly love his videos, even when I disagree with his takes (I tend to like Rattle's recordings a lot, for example, and I'm also partial to slow, intense performances a la Celibidache), because I love his irreverence, which doesn't seem to be to everyone's taste on the forum here. He's funny, and thus personable. I also usually like his topics, for being addicted to making playlists, I can't have enough "Fabulous Concert Programs," say, or some of the one-offs like "16 Symphonies after Franck" (or whatever it was called) since he often juxtaposes pieces I'd never link, whicih in turn helps me discover new work.

[Karl Henning]

Now he seems to be throwing topics at the wall to see what sticks.

Not really a growth strategy, is it?

[Karl Henning]

There are a few posters here that probably have.  I'm still often surprised by some of the very deep and broad discussions that happen here.  Welcome!  I hope you enjoy chatting with us.

I was going to say: there may be rather a population of them (I'm not nominating myself) only perhaps they don't elect to post on YouTube.

[DavidW]

I was going to say: there may be rather a population of them (I'm not nominating myself) only perhaps they don't elect to post on YouTube.

Do you remember that poster on CMG that had some crazy # like 20 or 40k cds?  I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few posters here that have 10k+ cds.  One or two might even have that many just in Bach.

[Jo498]

My observations on Hurwitz:
Overall an engaging presenter and staggeringly erudite when it comes to the volume of music he knows. Can there be anyone alive with more knowledge of classical music recordings? He is particularly useful in exploring more obscure composers. His blind spots are often bizarre (eg he finds the St Matthew Passion boring, thinks Sullivan is the greatest English composer and completely misses the whole point about lieder) but we all have similar aesthetic shortcomings.

I don't mind the blind spots in principle but he cannot at the same time claim that with his "reviewer hat" on he can review anything fairly and neutrally and then celebrate his blind spots often by insulting people who disagree (from the Horenstein fans to the Bruckner alternative versions to friends of Lieder or Christians who believe in the crucifixion story).
I have met more knowledgeable people on the internet than Hurwitz. While few to none have his breadth, they'll know more about certain topics (e.g Bach or Italian opera or Wagner or whatever). Nevertheless, I think his commentaries are sometimes impeded by his blind spots.

[Roberto]

My opinion about Mr. Hurwitz: I started to watch his videos maybe 1 and half year ago. I like his style and I think he is funny. He obviously has musical knowledge and I appreciate that. Some of his advice opened new horizons on my musical view. I like his music theory videos it helps me a lot, because I am not musician.
I think the biggest problem with his channel: less would be more. I started to watch all of his videos from te beginning but after a while I gave up. I don't have problem with 40+ min Hurwitz videos but not every day.
I already had 1500+ CD collection when I started to watch his videos and at the beginning I bought CDs based on his proposal. But after 2-3 big disappointments, I became more critical with his proposals.
I usually agree with his opinion about bad performances. I sometime agree with his opinion about period instrument people but not always. I think he is obsessed with this vibrato-thing.
I don't think he really listens to every CD. When he discuss about big boxes, I think he listened to those recordings years ago and, if ever. Or he picks some recordings from that boxes and listens to those again but clearly not all.
Opinion aboud sound quality is highly a matter of taste. He is unreliable for me in this topic also. Sometime I agree with him but sometime I don't.

[vandermolen]

My opinion about Mr. Hurwitz: I started to watch his videos maybe 1 and half year ago. I like his style and I think he is funny. He obviously has musical knowledge and I appreciate that. Some of his advice opened new horizons on my musical view. I like his music theory videos it helps me a lot, because I am not musician.
I think the biggest problem with his channel: less would be more. I started to watch all of his videos from te beginning but after a while I gave up. I don't have problem with 40+ min Hurwitz videos but not every day.
I already had 1500+ CD collection when I started to watch his videos and at the beginning I bought CDs based on his proposal. But after 2-3 big disappointments, I became more critical with his proposals.
I usually agree with his opinion about bad performances. I sometime agree with his opinion about period instrument people but not always. I think he is obsessed with this vibrato-thing.
I don't think he really listens to every CD. When he discuss about big boxes, I think he listened to those recordings years ago and, if ever. Or he picks some recordings from that boxes and listens to those again but clearly not all.
Opinion aboud sound quality is highly a matter of taste. He is unreliable for me in this topic also. Sometime I agree with him but sometime I don't.

This seems very wise to me and I agree that 'less is more' with his videos.

[vers la flamme]

My opinion about Mr. Hurwitz: I started to watch his videos maybe 1 and half year ago. I like his style and I think he is funny. He obviously has musical knowledge and I appreciate that. Some of his advice opened new horizons on my musical view. I like his music theory videos it helps me a lot, because I am not musician.
I think the biggest problem with his channel: less would be more. I started to watch all of his videos from te beginning but after a while I gave up. I don't have problem with 40+ min Hurwitz videos but not every day.
I already had 1500+ CD collection when I started to watch his videos and at the beginning I bought CDs based on his proposal. But after 2-3 big disappointments, I became more critical with his proposals.
I usually agree with his opinion about bad performances. I sometime agree with his opinion about period instrument people but not always. I think he is obsessed with this vibrato-thing.
I don't think he really listens to every CD. When he discuss about big boxes, I think he listened to those recordings years ago and, if ever. Or he picks some recordings from that boxes and listens to those again but clearly not all.
Opinion aboud sound quality is highly a matter of taste. He is unreliable for me in this topic also. Sometime I agree with him but sometime I don't.

Agreed—just the sheer amount of time it would take to even make that many extremely lengthy videos wouldn't leave behind much time for actual listening. I suspect that many of the opinions he is laying out in his videos are based on distant memories of the recordings in question.

[Roberto]

All in all Hurwitz obviously has big impact on classical music community. People talk about him, and even here, he gathered more comments than Tchaikovsky for example (Hurwitz topic: 828; Tchaikovsky topic: 550). So he did something very well. 

[j winter]

My opinion about Mr. Hurwitz: I started to watch his videos maybe 1 and half year ago. I like his style and I think he is funny. He obviously has musical knowledge and I appreciate that. Some of his advice opened new horizons on my musical view. I like his music theory videos it helps me a lot, because I am not musician.
I think the biggest problem with his channel: less would be more. I started to watch all of his videos from te beginning but after a while I gave up. I don't have problem with 40+ min Hurwitz videos but not every day.
I already had 1500+ CD collection when I started to watch his videos and at the beginning I bought CDs based on his proposal. But after 2-3 big disappointments, I became more critical with his proposals.
I usually agree with his opinion about bad performances. I sometime agree with his opinion about period instrument people but not always. I think he is obsessed with this vibrato-thing.
I don't think he really listens to every CD. When he discuss about big boxes, I think he listened to those recordings years ago and, if ever. Or he picks some recordings from that boxes and listens to those again but clearly not all.
Opinion aboud sound quality is highly a matter of taste. He is unreliable for me in this topic also. Sometime I agree with him but sometime I don't.

Yes, I agree with pretty much all of this.  I watch him fairly frequently because I often enjoy his sense of humor, and it's interesting to compare his opinion with mine on recordings I've heard, but clearly there's WAY too much on his channel to even think about watching it all.  He's definitely got his prejudices, which is all part of being a critic and which have been discussed here at length, but with that in mind I'll often drop by his channel when I have a few minutes to kill.  He has definitely turned me on to some good recordings, I have to admit.

[Spotted Horses]

PD:  if you like the Janacek quartets try and hear this disc (perhaps Hurwitz mentioned it - I've no idea)



Not only were these the first recordings of a new critical edition of the quartets - with several terrifyingly hard passages reinstated on the "original" instruments, but also the filler is a brilliantly idiomatic transcription of movements from "On an Overgrown Path" for quartet.  Its nearly as good as having a third quartet by Janacek!

I seem to recall that Janacek originally wrote the second quartet with viola d'amore instead of viola. I wonder if this is a factor in the revision.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I seem to recall that Janacek originally wrote the second quartet with viola d'amore instead of viola. I wonder if this is a factor in the revision.

I've listened to the recording with the Manderling Quartet, but wasn't keen on it.

Can't remember whether or not I tried to hunt down this CD with the Energie Nove.  Will try some YTing and searches in library system--particularly as I love "On an Overgrown Path".

PD

[Spotted Horses]

I've listened to the recording with the Manderling Quartet, but wasn't keen on it.

Can't remember whether or not I tried to hunt down this CD with the Energie Nove.  Will try some YTing and searches in library system--particularly as I love "On an Overgrown Path".

PD

At least according to the Wikipedia page, Janacek abandoned the idea of using Viola d'Amore instead of Viola because he was unsatisfied with the sound of the instrument in the quartet setting. The change wasn't a concession inconvenience of using an unconventional instrument. So I'm not super keen on hearing his revisions reversed, although I would be curious to hear the transcription of "On an Overgrown Path," which I have been enjoying in Kupiec's recording.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

At least according to the Wikipedia page, Janacek abandoned the idea of using Viola d'Amore instead of Viola because he was unsatisfied with the sound of the instrument in the quartet setting. The change wasn't a concession inconvenience of using an unconventional instrument. So I'm not super keen on hearing his revisions reversed, although I would be curious to hear the transcription of "On an Overgrown Path," which I have been enjoying in Kupiec's recording.

I remember watching this video (Audite) regarding the recording with the Manderling.  You might find it to be of interest.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psRcu5_FGnw

PD

[Karl Henning]

I remember watching this video (Audite) regarding the recording with the Manderling.  You might find it to be of interest.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psRcu5_FGnw

PD

Interesting. Watching now.

[Roasted Swan]

At least according to the Wikipedia page, Janacek abandoned the idea of using Viola d'Amore instead of Viola because he was unsatisfied with the sound of the instrument in the quartet setting. The change wasn't a concession inconvenience of using an unconventional instrument. So I'm not super keen on hearing his revisions reversed, although I would be curious to hear the transcription of "On an Overgrown Path," which I have been enjoying in Kupiec's recording.

I'm no Janacek expert - but doesn't the viola d'amore appear in some of his operatic and orchestral scores too?  To quote an online review of the Energie Nove performance;

"The leader of the Moravian Quartet who gave the work's premiere in 1928 - a month after the composer's death - was František Kudláček and he instigated many of the amendments that were incorporated into the published score.  The two main ones transplant stratospheric viola writing into the more manageable violin register. The first such passage is in the 3rd movement - figures 1-3 in the 'standard' UE score [around the 1:00 minute mark - track 17] - the viola has the melody lead which passes to the second violin at figure 2.  Not here; the viola keeps playing going up to a G sharp two and a half octaves above middle C.  The other main passage is the very end of the work where the 'top' line again stays in the viola whereas 'normally' it has passed to first violin.  The viola of the Quartetto Energie Nove, Ivan Vukčević, plays these challenging passages quite superbly - the tone of the instrument in this register more cutting than a 'sweeter' violin.  Elsewhere the differences seem to be more use of pizzicato either to mark passages more clearly or to give a folksier character.  Most telling is the very opening to the 4th movement which has a aptly stamping rumbustious character from all the players which the heavy pizzicati chords reinforce.

One other observation from following the standard score while listening to this original version is that there seems to be extra editing of the work.  There are a lot of dynamics and graduations of dynamics marked in the standard score not present in the current performance.  But elsewhere the players clearly diligently do play very specific markings both in terms of tempo and dynamic so I can only assume that the ones they apparently miss out are not there in the original.  So characteristic of Janáček's sound-world are extended passages marked sul poniticello [the glassy overtone-laden sound achieved by bowing literally 'on the bridge'] as well as the manic arpeggiated musical cells and these are played with an ideal sense of manic intensity."

So it seems that this performance in fact reinstates Janacek's intentions which the first performers (after his death) changed for practical/performance reasons.  I liked the version of "Overgrown Path" for quartet very much.  Not instead of the original but just as a new way of hearing/appreciating this wonderful music.

[Madiel]

I'm no Janacek expert - but doesn't the viola d'amore appear in some of his operatic and orchestral scores too?  To quote an online review of the Energie Nove performance;

"The leader of the Moravian Quartet who gave the work's premiere in 1928 - a month after the composer's death - was František Kudláček and he instigated many of the amendments that were incorporated into the published score.  The two main ones transplant stratospheric viola writing into the more manageable violin register. The first such passage is in the 3rd movement - figures 1-3 in the 'standard' UE score [around the 1:00 minute mark - track 17] - the viola has the melody lead which passes to the second violin at figure 2.  Not here; the viola keeps playing going up to a G sharp two and a half octaves above middle C.  The other main passage is the very end of the work where the 'top' line again stays in the viola whereas 'normally' it has passed to first violin.  The viola of the Quartetto Energie Nove, Ivan Vukčević, plays these challenging passages quite superbly - the tone of the instrument in this register more cutting than a 'sweeter' violin.  Elsewhere the differences seem to be more use of pizzicato either to mark passages more clearly or to give a folksier character.  Most telling is the very opening to the 4th movement which has a aptly stamping rumbustious character from all the players which the heavy pizzicati chords reinforce.

One other observation from following the standard score while listening to this original version is that there seems to be extra editing of the work.  There are a lot of dynamics and graduations of dynamics marked in the standard score not present in the current performance.  But elsewhere the players clearly diligently do play very specific markings both in terms of tempo and dynamic so I can only assume that the ones they apparently miss out are not there in the original.  So characteristic of Janáček's sound-world are extended passages marked sul poniticello [the glassy overtone-laden sound achieved by bowing literally 'on the bridge'] as well as the manic arpeggiated musical cells and these are played with an ideal sense of manic intensity."

So it seems that this performance in fact reinstates Janacek's intentions which the first performers (after his death) changed for practical/performance reasons.  I liked the version of "Overgrown Path" for quartet very much.  Not instead of the original but just as a new way of hearing/appreciating this wonderful music.

That whole great big long quote appears to be about replacing a viola with a violin, not about replacing a viola d'amore with a viola.

Nor are changes to an orchestral score of any real relevance to changes in a quartet setting. The whole POINT of quartet writing is that the instruments have the same timbre. That's why string quartet writing is considered so challenging.

[Spotted Horses]

That whole great big long quote appears to be about replacing a viola with a violin, not about replacing a viola d'amore with a viola.

Nor are changes to an orchestral score of any real relevance to changes in a quartet setting. The whole POINT of quartet writing is that the instruments have the same timbre. That's why string quartet writing is considered so challenging.

I think the short history is:

1) Janacek writes the quartet intending Viola d'Amore
2) Janacek decides Viola d'Amore doesn't blend well with the ensemble, authorizes substitution of viola.
3) When the quartet is posthumously debuted, players judge the part assigned to viola problematic because it exceeds the range of the viola, the quartet is revised to give some passages to violin.
4) The revisions are reversed and people are trying to play in on viola, despite the difficulty.

I'm not sure there is a definitive version, because Janacek may well have agreed that the quartet should be revised to reflect the range of the viola. In any case, I'm curious to hear the recording being discussed (which is available on streaming services in short supply on physical media).

Question: Are other ensembles adopting the new corrected version of the quartet?

[AnotherSpin]

My opinion about Mr. Hurwitz: I started to watch his videos maybe 1 and half year ago. I like his style and I think he is funny. He obviously has musical knowledge and I appreciate that. Some of his advice opened new horizons on my musical view. I like his music theory videos it helps me a lot, because I am not musician.
I think the biggest problem with his channel: less would be more. I started to watch all of his videos from te beginning but after a while I gave up. I don't have problem with 40+ min Hurwitz videos but not every day.
I already had 1500+ CD collection when I started to watch his videos and at the beginning I bought CDs based on his proposal. But after 2-3 big disappointments, I became more critical with his proposals.
I usually agree with his opinion about bad performances. I sometime agree with his opinion about period instrument people but not always. I think he is obsessed with this vibrato-thing.
I don't think he really listens to every CD. When he discuss about big boxes, I think he listened to those recordings years ago and, if ever. Or he picks some recordings from that boxes and listens to those again but clearly not all.
Opinion aboud sound quality is highly a matter of taste. He is unreliable for me in this topic also. Sometime I agree with him but sometime I don't.

Reading or watching Hurwitz is interesting, imo. Although I rarely do. His views are so often opinionated or dictated by hidden agendas. So what? One does not necessarily have to agree. And to seek external support for one's own opinion from Hurwitz or anyone else is plain silly.

[Madiel]

I very much doubt Hurwitz has hidden agendas. He's quite forthcoming about them.

It's the people who don't admit the existence of agendas that you have to worry about, not the people who present their opinions in several videos a week.