Britain and Europe.

[Turner]

1)
Interesting:
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/746308195681996800
Carl Bildt:"Watching UK TV I find it striking how leading Brexit figures don't really want to trigger mechanism to leave the UK. Trying to delay"


2)
Incredible:
https://twitter.com/markmackinnon/status/746304660919693312
The presumptive Republican candidate to be President of the United States seems unaware of how Scotland voted ...

"Donald J. Trump: 
‏@realDonaldTrump 
Just arrived in Scotland. Place is going wild over the vote. They took their country back, just like we will take America back. No games!"

[The new erato]

Cameron's reckless, selfish gamble feels as if it could have devastating consequences.

Another prime minister that begins with an C comes to mind. "Peace in our time" doesn't come from navel-gazing.

[The new erato]

Interesting:

Carl Bildt:"Watching UK TV I find it striking how leading Brexit figures don't really want to trigger mechanism to leave the UK. Trying to delay"

https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/746308195681996800

Of course. Now someone's called their bluff on many issues.

[Brian]

Yes, and has anyone thought of the implications for the Eurovision Song Contest?

But Australia is in that!

[Brian]

On that same car journey to work this morning... I couldn't turn the radio on, couldn't bear to hear Farage and Johnson crowing. But in the CD player, a vision of beauty, Tippett's Piano Concerto, its corruscating cascades of fourths, so gentle, so generous, so pliant, its deep grassy celesta-wreathed earth-magic, moon-magic... This is what the best of Englishness is, to me - it is human, and tender, in touch with body and spirit, humour and poetry, magic and reality. It feels like that particular Englishness has gone forever, today. To be honest, it has always felt like a dream of a fresher, kinder past. But it was there, under the surface, and you could visit it without too much trouble. Today I feel like it has been crushed for good.

I will listen to this today. Thank you.

[Brian]

Honest question for the knowledgeable UK history people: in light of this vote, and with the possibility of Scotparture and even an Ireland unification vote, is David Cameron the worst PM in UK history?

[The new erato]

Somebody's thinks he is a strong candidate:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/david-cameron-downfall-european-tragedy

[vandermolen]

Honest question for the knowledgeable UK history people: in light of this vote, and with the possibility of Scotparture and even an Ireland unification vote, is David Cameron the worst PM in UK history?

I'd award this to Tony Blair due to the lies over Iraq. I voted Labour last election.

[vandermolen]

But Australia is in that!

Good point! Thank you 
That's a relief; now we can still continue to come last or third from last well into the future.

[vandermolen]

Re:David Cameron, isn't this a good example of the maxim that 'all political careers end in failure'?

[Brian]

Re:David Cameron, isn't this a good example of the maxim that 'all political careers end in failure'?

Or death: Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Augustus.
Aside from lifelong rulers like Augustus, the best counterpoints I can think of are non-politicians whose political careers were only temporary, such as George Washington and Dwight Eisenhower.

[Florestan]

Forgive me if I rant and sound intemperate. It is how I feel today.

I am ashamed of my country, and today I feel like a foreigner here. I'm not alone in this, either, I know, from talking to my colleagues (all of us that currently frowned-upon social group - educated types with degrees, who tend to vote Remain). We are all absolutely devastated.

I completely understand your (and your friends) disapppointment, frustration and anger, but I think you might be overreacting. Should the Romanians ever vote to leave the EU, I would be devastated too, because while the UK will survive one way or the other, even in a smaller England-Wales version, for Romania there is no other way than either EU or being captured again in Moscow´s orbit.

[Brian]

Re:David Cameron, isn't this a good example of the maxim that 'all political careers end in failure'?

Actually the strict term limits set in America after FDR mean that a president can end his tenure without that end constituting a 'failure' - e.g. Reagan or Obama.

[Florestan]

Honest question for the knowledgeable UK history people: in light of this vote, and with the possibility of Scotparture and even an Ireland unification vote, is David Cameron the worst PM in UK history?

A strong candidate for the stupidest, anyway. This whole bloody referendum will be recorded by history as one of the most stupid political decisions ever made.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Actually the strict term limits set in America after FDR mean that a president can end his tenure without that end constituting a 'failure' - e.g. Reagan or Obama.

Of course there are those who consider both of those presidents to be total failures, for various reasons.

I don't know the issues well enough to comment, but my inclination is to say that if Trump supports this, it cannot be good. Top reader comment from today's NY Times:

"Now I'm scared. I thought BREXIT was a lot of sound and fury, much like Trump, but would never actually be approved. Britain was too smart for that. Now I have to ask: are we wise enough not to elect Trump?"

[Luke]

I completely understand your (and your friends) disapppointment, frustration and anger, but I think you might be overreacting.

Thank you - I really hope you are right!

A strong candidate for the stupidest, anyway. This whole bloody referendum will be recorded by history as one of the most stupid political decisions ever made.

Anyone could have told him that at the time. It was blindingly, painfuly obvious.

[Ken B]

Honest question for the knowledgeable UK history people: in light of this vote, and with the possibility of Scotparture and even an Ireland unification vote, is David Cameron the worst PM in UK history?

Snort. If allowing people to vote is such a horrendous crime then why are you in favour of extreme measures to pump up the turn out? 

[Karl Henning]

Headline at the online Washington Post: "Russian politicians seem very happy about the Brexit"

[(poco) Sforzando]

Snort. If allowing people to vote is such a horrendous crime then why are you in favour of extreme measures to pump up the turn out? 

We in the US are so committed to believing in democracy as an axiomatic good that we fail to read our Plato (see US Presidency thread).

[Ken B]

Here are my predictions:

• Rivers will overflow their banks
• The moon will spin out of orbit
• Women will grow beards

I stake out these claims now, clearly, to firmly establish myself as the least alarmist poster on this topic.