Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[zamyrabyrd]

We´ve been down this road before, apparently forgotten:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,24159.msg1015746/topicseen.html#msg1015746
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,24159.6860.html

showing that due to the organized crime and increasing murder rates, Italians were actually previously very much the object of xenophobia, lynching and even anti-immigration law initiative in the US.

ZB seems to stick to a previous, ironical statement:"Oh sure, the Mafia went around blowing up buildings, attacking civilians with knives, shooting up places of entertainment with women and children in them. The cruelty perpetrated is on an entirely different level, the last horror happening in Nice with an "ice cream" truck mowing down and killing 80 or so people. There are simply too many atrocities to remember or list. The last one usually obliterates the memory of the one before", ignoring the many, innocent victims, judges, police officers etc. in Mafia crime and killings, by repeating the "internecine" label.

Didn't forget a thing. The Italians did not declare a holy war against the US or Western Civilization. We have it ALL in their playbook, it is there for anyone to see.

The Italians, like other immigrants, had to earn respect. It was not given to them on a silver platter. The same with their livelihoods, they did not expect, nor take welfare. They served honorably in the armed forces. The 2nd generation and those after that did not become radicalized and anti-American. This radicalization of children of immigrants is a whole new phenomenon.

[North Star]

Ah yes, Italians... some of them, I assume, are good people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_United_States_anarchist_bombings

[ritter]

... The 2nd generation and those after that did not become radicalized and anti-American. This radicalization of children of immigrants is a whole new phenomenon.

Again, I give you Al Capone (2nd generation Italian-American)...but of course, in a world where "I" am good and the "other" is bad, the group "I" belong to is acceptable, and the "other" should be banished, this kind of reasoning doesn't necessarily apply, does it?

We are living in an age in which politicians, led by Mr. Trump (but also all those I mentioned in a previous post), actually flaunt their immorality...And I repeat, they are apparently willing to destroy what the West is all about even before the (very real--I'm in no way denying that) threats from abroad manage to do so...

[Rinaldo]

How should it be confronted?

Broad topic (I'm sure you have some ideas). Certainly not by making it easier for radicals to sway disenfranchised towards their cause.

Wow, 9/11 was imaginary! I'll get writer's cramp by listing everything from them until the latest atrocities in Germany, Istanbul and Nice. You won't acknowledge them anyway.

If only you used that energy to acknowledge real, hard data. Refugees are not the danger they're portrayed to be.

[drogulus]

Then Charles Martel should have put out a welcome mat in 732. The same with the Viennese in 1683, which by the way the battle joined occurred on September 11th.

ZB

     Your model is one of religious conflict inappropriate to liberal secular states. Illiberal states do enhance religious and ethnic conflict. They promote what they are reacting to. It's in the ideological model. An internal divide and rule model is extended, or one might say they are part of the same world view.

[zamyrabyrd]

Ah yes, Italians... some of them, I assume, are good people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_United_States_anarchist_bombings

This incident was a carried by a fringe anarchist group. Only one watchman was killed.
For years now, terrorist atrocities and suicide bombings have become an almost everyday event, hardly registering a blip on the screen when happening in countries of origin like Pakistan and Yemen. Turkey has its own Islamist headache.

[drogulus]

     Paul Ryan's Obamacare Alternative Is Here, and It Doesn't Even Pretend to Care About Poor People

At last, the Republican Party's long-promised sparkling alternative to the Affordable Care Act has arrived, and preliminary reports suggest that new proposal improves significantly upon existing law, providing cheaper, more affordable care to millions of Americans across the board and ensuring that... who are we kidding? It's a disingenuous, regressive, and cruel proposal that will make it even more difficult and more expensive to be poor in America.

     But come on....who would expect anything else?

[ahinton]

Didn't forget a thing. The Italians did not declare a holy war against the US or Western Civilization. We have it ALL in their playbook, it is there for anyone to see.

But who has declared one, then? How do you identify every person who subscribes to that particular belligerence, wherever they might be (including in US already) and deal with them all appropriately?

The Italians, like other immigrants, had to earn respect. It was not given to them on a silver platter. The same with their livelihoods, they did not expect, nor take welfare. They served honorably in the armed forces. The 2nd generation and those after that did not become radicalized and anti-American. This radicalization of children of immigrants is a whole new phenomenon.

Fair comments about the Italians. As to the radicalisation, yes, it is indeed a relatively new phenomenon but, just as someone has first to identify, seek out, find and deal with those radicalised individuals as well as those who have radicalised them, whoever they are and whether or not they are children of immigrants, children of non-immigrants or young adults, before dealing with them appropriately. How would you go about that, especially when both those who radicalise people and those who are hoodwinked into being radicalised might not even be in US in the first place even though some of what they then go on to do actually affects US and its citizens?

[ahinton]

Ah yes, Italians... some of them, I assume, are good people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_United_States_anarchist_bombings

Fair comment and one that I might have thought to make myself were it not for the fact that this happened almost a century ago.

[ahinton]

How should it be confronted?

That's an important question that I keep asking without receiving a credible answer or indeed any answer at all; that said, Rinaldo did at least add "but that's a different (and much more complicated) story", which indeed it is. Whatever else anyone might think or have to say about this, US has no jurisdiction over what goes on outside US, including terrorist activity, radicalisation and the rest; its law enforcement and judicial authorities would also encounter no end of difficulty in rooting out cases in which US citizens and others living in US are being radicalised, especially if remotely from outside US.

[Florestan]

As to the radicalisation, yes, it is indeed a relatively new phenomenon but, just as someone has first to identify, seek out, find and deal with those radicalised individuals as well as those who have radicalised them

Immediately shut down all mosques in which radical Islam is preached (plenty of them in Europe, especially France, Belgium and the UK), deport all non-national radical imams and forbid the national ones ever to preach in another mosque (you are British, Anjem Choudary surely rings a bell to you). Tolerating those who openly and publicly proclaim that their sacred duty is to destroy you is not virtue, it is the folliest of follies.

[zamyrabyrd]

Immediately shut down all mosques in which radical Islam is preached (plenty of them in Europe, especially France, Belgium and the UK), deport all non-national radical imams and forbid the national ones ever to preach in another mosque (you are British, Anjem Choudary surely rings a bell to you). Tolerating those who openly and publicly proclaim that their sacred duty is to destroy you is not virtue, it is the folliest of follies.

merci, foarte mult

[Florestan]

mersi mult

Either that way and spelling, or "Mulțumesc foarte mult".

Anyway, you're welcome. 

[zamyrabyrd]

Either that way and spelling, or "Mulțumesc foarte mult".
Anyway, you're welcome. 

I did hear Romanians say "merci". Is it to show their fluency in French, perhaps?

[Florestan]

I did hear Romanians say "merci". Is it to show their fluency in French, perhaps?

It was indeed the case in the 19th century, but since long ago it has been just as usual and used as the Romanian "mulțumesc" and many people use it on a daily basis who cannot otherwise utter a single French word.  The spelling, though, has been Romanian-ized to "mersi".

[zamyrabyrd]

It was indeed the case in the 19th century, but since long ago it has been just as usual and used as the Romanian "mulțumesc" and many people use it on a daily basis who cannot otherwise utter a single French word.  The spelling, though, has been Romanian-ized to "mersi".

I've noticed the Romanians (at least in my circle of acquaintance) often know French very well. Many of them are fluent in Italian and English as well. 

[Florestan]

I've noticed the Romanians (at least in my circle of acquaintance) often know French very well. Many of them are fluent in Italian and English as well.

Prior to the end of the WWII fluency in French was considered one of the most visible marks of an educated person, and something of that enormous prestige of the French language and culture survived until today.

Knowledge of English is much more common these days, for obvious reasons.

As for Italian, it is quite easy for Romanians to understand it, but the other way around is problematic. 

[drogulus]

     When Trump accused a reporter for a Jewish publication of lying (about what?) he descended to a level no President has ever been before.

     This is sickening:

     https://www.youtube.com/v/wa1s2rIoefc

     

     

[Todd]

That's an important question that I keep asking without receiving a credible answer or indeed any answer at all

Nor do you offer any credible answers, or any answers, at all.

Whatever else anyone might think or have to say about this, US has no jurisdiction over what goes on outside US, including terrorist activity, radicalisation and the rest

I've never claimed otherwise; please point out where I made such a claim.  And then point out where other people argued the US has the jurisdiction, as opposed to the power, to do so.  The US, does, however, via its sovereign power as a nation state, and practically through its extended sovereignty overseas at US embassies, consulates, and diplomatic missions, and through working with other governments, have the power to restrict who enters the US without having to meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard.  That is one, small, practical tool to be used.

[BasilValentine]

     When Trump accused a reporter for a Jewish publication of lying (about what?) he descended to a level no President has ever been before.

     This is sickening:

     https://www.youtube.com/v/wa1s2rIoefc

Yes, it is sickening. What makes it worse is that the question the reporter was trying to ask was exceedingly simple: There has been a big uptick in threats including bomb threats against Jewish institutions. What if anything are you going to do about it?