Bruckner's Abbey

[Haffner]

HIP Bruckner anyone?



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Q

Heyyy, and by quite the conductor....(drool).

[Bulldog]

HIP Bruckner anyone?



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Q

Thanks for the heads-up.  This is one I'll definitely be buying.

[Renfield]

I upped two late Jochum recordings of the 8th and 9th symphonies for anyone interested. They contrast decently with his famous ones, the interps of which hadn't changed very much for decades before.

No.8, No.9.

Thanks!

[Cato]

Comments from my much younger brother on the Los Angeles performance of Bruckner's Ninth on Tuesday night: he mentions his daughter, my niece, who suffers from the family's tendency toward hyper-aestheticism, a malady dooming her to a life tangential to, if not entirely disconnected from, economic success.

She is 11 years old.

"Zubin Mehta conducting the Vienna Philharmonic last night -- Bruckner's 9th.

I have NEVER heard the 9th performed so well -- so unique.

My daughter was transfixed -- her eyes locked toward the ceiling. Then suddenly she would jump into my arms and had a look of utter terror in her face. Her eyes glistened with tears. When I asked her if the music was frightening her, she said, no, it's just so amazing. She was having some sort of expressionistic meltdown.

I asked her what the music was about. And she said: "Death. No... life."

But what was impressive was the singularity of movement and sound from the orchestra. All the strings sounded as if they were being played by a soloist -- i.e., with great unison and precision.
And the striations of sound during the scherzo were much longer and deliberate than anything I've ever heard.

I actually leaned forward in my seat and looked around to see if anyone else was experiencing this kind of heightened sense about the performance. Most people were in another world. Quite hypnotic. It was bar none the most mystical experience I've felt at any concert.

Mehta made the orchestra hush between sections in the Third Movement-- 4 definitive breaks. I thought it made the piece a lot more coherent, by being seemingly disconnected.

At times the hair on my neck actually stood up, and I had chills."

To which I responded: "Of course!  You were listening to BRUCKNER!!!"   0:)

[Lilas Pastia]

WOW !! 

Hopefully a Rapishare or Mediafire link will appear in short order 

I wonder if any member of the 1965 WP was still playing that night. That old Decca disc is one of the glories of the catalogue. Not necessarily the best, but of necessity, unique.

[Cato]

WOW !! 

Hopefully a Rapishare or Mediafire link will appear in short order 

I wonder if any member of the 1965 WP was still playing that night. That old Decca disc is one of the glories of the catalogue. Not necessarily the best, but of necessity, unique.

Here is a professional review by Mark Swed:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/03/zubin-mehta-bri.html

[Lilas Pastia]

Thanks ! Methink it was a grand, grand occasion. Surely something will surface. It has to.

[Opus106]

And the striations of sound during the scherzo were much longer and deliberate than anything I've ever heard.

Quite true. I haven't listened to many performances of this work, but the scherzo in a recent performance by the same bunch sounded quite different.

WOW !! 

Hopefully a Rapishare or Mediafire link will appear in short order 

The Vienna and Paris performances are already out there.

[jlaurson]

Comments from my much younger brother on the Los Angeles performance of Bruckner's Ninth on Tuesday night:
I have NEVER heard the 9th performed so well -- so unique.

I wasn't able to be there, so I sent a friend instead, who reported back the following:

[...] If you can take your Bruckner 9th without the cataclysmic, the minatory, the cosmic mystery, and the exaltation, then the Mehta interpretation might be for you. But you might wonder: where is the inner life of this work?  This was an exterior view of Bruckner.  As such, it revealed very little. God was left in the Green Room. [...]

HIP Bruckner anyone?

Well, I was skeptical (not the least because I had to suffer through a HORRID Norrington Bruckner 4th, once), but Herreweghe's recording of the Seventh is actually quite good.
---
His Fourth isn't bad either, but not much more than just that: Not bad.

----
Nearly forgot my main point: Coming at the latest in 2012 from UNITEL: A complete Bruckner Cycle with the Munich Philharmonic and Christian Thielemann in High Definition Sound & Video!

[Lilas Pastia]

I have a WP Mehta 9th in the can (thanks to M NOT Forever), but haven't listened to it yet. The performance is prefaced by a german radio announcer, so it's impossible to tell if it's the LA one broadcast "there" or any other one. I guess Mehta is touring with the WP all over the place. More power to them!

In any case, on account of their historic 1965 Decca recording, I can't for a fleeting moment think that they could deliver an un-cataclysmic, un-minatory, etc performance (nice choice of words BTW, which tells more about its author's predilections thant its subject's artistic potential - IOW when you think you KNOW how a piece should go, who needs broadcasts and critics  ).

But I myself digress: I haven't heard the 2009 WP  Mehta 9th. I will HONESTLY report on my findings in due course!

[Dundonnell]

Reading the posts about Bruckner's 7th in 'What Are You Listening To?" reminded me that the three versions of the symphony I have are van Beinum's Concertgebouw recording(on LP), Haitink's Royal Concertgebouw recording from 1978 and the Vienna Philharmonic recording conducted by Nikolaus Harnoncourt.

Now I know that this will sound silly...but can anybody give me any idea why I might have bought the Harnoncourt? Somebody must surely have recommended it to me? How does it rate?

Eugene?

[Renfield]

Reading the posts about Bruckner's 7th in 'What Are You Listening To?" reminded me that the three versions of the symphony I have are van Beinum's Concertgebouw recording(on LP), Haitink's Royal Concertgebouw recording from 1978 and the Vienna Philharmonic recording conducted by Nikolaus Harnoncourt.

Now I know that this will sound silly...but can anybody give me any idea why I might have bought the Harnoncourt? Somebody must surely have recommended it to me? How does it rate?

Eugene?

There's more than one Van Beinum recording! I suppose you have the earlier one? (IIRC, there's two of them.) I'm asking because I've read praise for it from the Gramophone's archive, but I don't think it's currently available on CD outside Japan, and I'm curious.


Now, on Harnoncourt, I don't have the recording, but from what I've read of it, I understand it's less of a clear success than his 5th or 9th (which are both excellent), and is more of a typical 'Harnoncourt-job' - so to speak - than either of the latter.

To illustrate my point, here is the review I had consulted at first (through the old Gramophone site), quite indicative of most comments I've read on this recording: great playing, point-making one may or may not appreciate (Osborne didn't, but he's quite conservative), and a generally "pumped up" reading, as far as my impression of RO's appraisal goes - i.e. typical Harnoncourt (versus un-typical Harnoncourt in the 5th or 9th).


Of course, I will again note that I have not heard it myself.

Still, going by the comments, I would only be inclined to acquire it as an alternative take, rather than a 'proper' recording of the symphony; which is how it might've been recommended to you, as "a different take on the Bruckner 7th" (which it arguably is).

[Dundonnell]

That's very interesting, Eugene, thank you

As far as the van Beinum is concerned, I really don't know the date; it is a Decca double set coupled with Cesar Franck's 'Psyche'(!) on LXT 2829.

Regarding Harnoncourt, I would have read the Gramophone review but I may also have been influenced by (presumably) Edward Greenfield in the Penguin Guide; he waxed lyrical about the majestic playing of the Vienna Phil.

[Lilas Pastia]

The chief credentials of Harnoncourt's Bruckner recordings are the orchestra's nonpareil, sui generis response to the Bruckner idiom.  I honestly don't think any positive aspects of these performances have much, if any to do with Harnoncourt's conducting. For the Philharmoniker, Harnoncourt is "one of the boys", if an eccentric progeny. But better to hear it in his/their performance than in an unidiomatic one.

Now, what constitutes an idiomatic Bruckner performance.. ? Hasn't he become a "universal" composer, like Mahler 15-20 years before him? Responses to his scores may vary widely, the reception by the listener will also vary. There is no single answer. Bruckner has finally come of age  .

[Lilas Pastia]

TTT. I wrote this in the main thread, but for fellow brucknerites who didn't read it, here it is:

Today: Bruckner 6, Boston symphony, William Steinberg. A surprising entry into the 6th sweepstakes. Steinberg is a master conductor whoo knows exactly how to pace the work. Although it clocks in at under 53 minutes, it sounds very expansive and patient. Steinberg indulges into many phrase end easings (not exactly ritards, but a broadening of tempo that makes the paragraph end with a sort of pedal point before the next one begins. Clever and very effective. He manages the codas of I and esp. 4 with immense power yet an absolute control of the heavy traffic. I've not theard the symphony end with such grandeur allied to perfect clarity. What's surprising is that much of the time the orchestra sounds almost too rounded, as if the conductor has insisted on a central european blend. Definitely not the sound one hears with the same conductor and orchestra in another german repertoire work, Mathis der Maler. In that one, the DG engineers achieve stunning power and colour.

In short, a distinctive take on the symphony. It doesn't come across as 'die keckste'. I found Steinberg's way more brahmsian (in the good sense) than most: he ensures there's a constant flow of melodic material instead of treating the sections in stark blocks of sound.

[Daverz]

Today: Bruckner 6, Boston symphony, William Steinberg.

Do you have the Lp, or were you lucky enough to get the Japanese CD issue?  I have two vinyl copies of this.  One is unplayable because of edge warp, and the other sounds like the stamper was underfilled (lots of ripping noises in loud passages).  Not unusual for these dynaflop pressings.  But from what I can hear, it sounds like a gorgeous recording.

[Lilas Pastia]

Neither this nor that. It's a Haydn House cd transcript from an lp. Uncharacteristically from this source, I keep hearing a slight haze - like a thin distortion layer - that mars complete sonic enjoyment. Other than that, it's obviously from a modern recording, with very spacious and wide-ranging recording. The date is October 1970.

[Daverz]

So any comments on the Zander 5?

I bring it up because it got a good review in ARG (mainly for the analysis disc) and a glowing one in Fanfare (for both performance and analysis), so I ordered it.  But then I remembered that this was a disc that Hurwitz trashed months ago.  It's one of those Hurwitz reviews, where he latches on to some detail and then the whole review follows single-mindedly from that.  I always get the impression of a howler monkey flinging poo.

[Renfield]

So any comments on the Zander 5?

I bring it up because it got a good review in ARG (mainly for the analysis disc) and a glowing one in Fanfare (for both performance and analysis), so I ordered it.  But then I remembered that this was a disc that Hurwitz trashed months ago.  It's one of those Hurwitz reviews, where he latches on to some detail and then the whole review follows single-mindedly from that.  I always get the impression of a howler monkey flinging poo.

I have literally and entirely stopped paying attention to David Hurwitz's opinions verbal/textual excretions a while ago, with no regrets whatsoever.

That having been said, I'd also welcome the feedback on the Zander Bruckner 5th.

[Wanderer]

So any comments on the Zander 5?

I've also ordered it, as well as Herreweghe's. Neither has been dispatched yet, though.