Author Topic: The Boris Johnson thread.  (Read 22467 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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The Boris Johnson thread.
« on: June 15, 2019, 03:21:09 AM »
Here is a nice uncontroversial one for you.

Johnson rather likes to compare himself with Churchill but I rather liked the observation that 'Churchill had personality and character. Johnson has personality.'

Any views?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

Offline Christo

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2019, 04:48:25 AM »
Here is a nice uncontroversial one for you.

Johnson rather likes to compare himself with Churchill but I rather liked the observation that 'Churchill had personality and character. Johnson has personality.'

Any views?
It's also fair to consider Churchill a disaster until 1940 - and then he had his finest hour (lasting for two years) which deserves him all posterior praise. Thus far Boris only succesfully copied the disaster.  :D
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 05:45:43 AM »
Churchill needed a nemesis on the scale of Hitler in order to show himself a decent chap, a brave man and a sensible stateman --- all of which he was, no doubts.

Who is Johnson's Hitler, I wonder?  ;D
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Offline Todd

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 06:09:43 AM »
Only three posts to get to Hitler.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2019, 06:53:02 AM »
Only three posts to get to Hitler.

 ;D

Hey, don't get me wrong, Boris Johnson would have been no match for Hitler. But can you really divorce Churchill's achievements and fame from his battle with Hitler? What would have Churchill achieved without the latter?

No, honestly, Churchill got itto power with the specific purpose to oppose, and later defeat, Hitler. What's so strange in my naming the later guy?

« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 06:58:47 AM by Florestan »
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Offline Todd

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2019, 07:01:11 AM »
What would have Churchill achieved without the latter?


Churchill was an accomplished man long before the 40s.  For instance, he played a not insignificant role in converting the Royal Navy from coal to oil.  That had rather far reaching geostrategic implications.  He did other stuff, too. 

Also, Boris' Hitler could be Trump.  Amiright?
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2019, 07:05:03 AM »
Boris' Hitler could be Trump.  Amiright?

Dead wrong, actually. Trrump is definitely no Hitler, nor is Johnson any Churchill, by any stretch of the imagination.
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Offline Todd

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2019, 07:05:42 AM »
Trump is definitely no Hitler


What?!?!
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2019, 07:20:26 AM »

What?!?!

Trump is definitely no Hitler --- not only because 2020 Americans are definitely no 1930 Germans, but also because 2020 Germans are definitely not 1930 Germans.

My assessment: Trump is an idiot who temporarily holds the office of POTUS because he has capitalized upon many legitimate grievances of the American working class, whom the Left picture as the greatest enemy of humanity ever, whose pronouncements can safely be ignored and whose official decrees can be lawfully undone , if so wished, by whomever succeeds him.

Hitler my a$$!
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Offline Todd

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2019, 07:26:29 AM »
<> is an idiot who temporarily holds the office of POTUS


The same can be, and is, said of every president.

You sure don't seem to see the imminent and catastrophic danger that Trump represents.  Shame on you.

But to get back to the topic, surely you see the Right Honourable Boris Johnson as an imminent and catastrophic danger to the UK, Europe, and the world.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2019, 07:36:12 AM »
The same can be, and is, said of every president.

Surely. Not only of USA, but of each and any republic under the sun. Add kingdom or empire too.

Quote
You sure don't seem to see the imminent and catastrophic danger that Trump represents.  Shame on you.

No, I don't. I'm a capitalistic, mysoginistic, white suprematist pig.

Quote
you see the Right Honourable Boris Johnson as an imminent and catastrophic danger to the UK, Europe, and the world.

No, I don't. I see him as one of the many idiots who compete for having the right honourable right to ride a dead horse.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2019, 08:10:40 AM »
Churchill needed a nemesis on the scale of Hitler in order to show himself a decent chap, a brave man and a sensible stateman --- all of which he was, no doubts.

Who is Johnson's Hitler, I wonder?  ;D

     During the '30s Churchill ran the worlds best intelligence service against Germany from his bathtub.

    I think Trump exhibits a level of multidimensional idiocy that is unprecedented. It's far more then an idiotic policy choice.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2019, 08:30:10 AM »
     During the '30s Churchill ran the worlds best intelligence service against Germany from his bathtub.

If the German intelligence were that idiotic and incompetent as to be defeated from one's bathtub, why did it take so many years for Churchill to defeat them, I wonder?

Quote
    I think Trump exhibits a level of multidimensional idiocy that is unprecedented.

I think not. What is indeed unprecedented is (hostile) media coverage.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2019, 08:46:57 AM »
If the German intelligence were that idiotic and incompetent as to be defeated from one's bathtub, why did it take so many years for Churchill to defeat them, I wonder?



     Churchill had the most extensive factual information on German rearmament, not German intelligence operations, and his political instincts about NAZI intentions were spot on.

     Churchill defended fortress Britain long enough for Stalin and Roosevelt to defeat Germany.

     
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2019, 09:27:34 AM »
     Churchill had the most extensive factual information on German rearmament, not German intelligence operations, and his political instincts about NAZI intentions were spot on.

     Churchill defended fortress Britain long enough for Stalin and Roosevelt to defeat Germany.

   


IOW, Germans were big time idiots with respect to intelligence.

Sorry, I don't buy this. Try something else.
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Offline Todd

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2019, 09:51:10 AM »
No, I don't. I'm a capitalistic, mysoginistic, white suprematist pig.


You forgot privileged, patriarchal, and both a purveyor and victim of toxic masculinity.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2019, 10:06:28 AM »

IOW, Germans were big time idiots with respect to intelligence.

Sorry, I don't buy this. Try something else.

     I don't understand your point. I made no claim about the effectiveness of German intelligence, only Churchill's ad hoc network of informants who provided valuable information on the true state of German war preparations and the weakness of British defenses.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2019, 10:09:51 AM »
     I don't understand your point.

Neither do I.
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Offline drogulus

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2019, 10:16:33 AM »
Neither do I.

     At last we agree.

“In his memoirs, written so soon after the war, Churchill could not tell the story of the help which Morton and others had given him. Yet without the information provided by Morton, Wigram and Anderson, and by many other officials whose contact with Churchill is described in this volume, each of whom risked his career by telling Churchill what they knew of Britain's defence weaknesses, it would have been very difficult, if not impossible, for him to have kept up his sustained pressure on the Government, to have kept himself so fully informed on a day-to-day basis of the true defence situation in all its aspects, to have aroused public opinion through his detailed and accurate warnings, or to have been so well prepared to take up once more the responsibilities of a member of the War Cabinet at the outbreak of war in September 1939.”
- Martin Gilbert, Churchill biographer


     I read the 2 volume Manchester bio, the second of which, Alone, covers the relevant period.
 
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The Boris Johnson thread.
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2019, 10:17:24 AM »
I compose music because I must give expression to my feelings, just as I talk because I must give utterance to my thoughts. --- Rachmaninoff