Coronavirus thread

[Karl Henning]

A small victory against disinformation in Texas: Texas court says hospital can't be forced to offer ivermectin to covid patient on ventilator

[MusicTurner]

The hospital discrepancy of course sounds unethical, especially if the reporters are relatively unprotected, or the sick people aren't specifically insisting on telling their story to the media.

In DK we've only had interviews after sickness, or with family members, or with doctors on or after work. Pictures of people in hospital are very few and I think normally non-identifiable, they then use them as stock photos.

[Karl Henning]

Austria becomes Europe's first country to demand vaccination for all

By Loveday Morris and Denise Hruby

Yesterday at 1:32 p.m. EST

BERLIN — Austria on Friday became the first country in Europe to say it will mandate the coronavirus vaccine for everyone eligible, as it reimposed a nationwide lockdown amid a surge in infections that has gripped parts of Europe.

Austria's announcement comes as countries across Europe grapple with how to deal with rising coronavirus cases as winter sets in — and with people weary and frustrated after vaccinations had raised hope of an end to restrictions.

The World Health Organization said Tuesday that Europe was the world's only region with coronavirus deaths on the rise, jumping by 5 percent since earlier this month.

Vaccination rates range widely across Europe — from more than 80 percent in parts of Western Europe to under 30 percent in places such as Bulgaria — while some countries including France and Italy have expanded rules that sharply limit workplace and social options for the unvaccinated.

But the move by Austria — with a fully vaccinated level of about 64 percent — pushes into full-mandate territory that other countries in the West have so far resisted because of worries of public backlash and other potential challenges.

"We now have to face reality," Austria's chancellor, Alexander Schallenberg, told reporters in Vienna. From February, vaccines will be required for everyone, he said, without giving details of what would be the minimum age.

Recent scenes from hospitals in parts of Austria have been reminiscent of the early days of the pandemic, with doctors preparing to make difficult life-or-death decisions on who they have the capacity to treat.

In one hospital in Upper Austria — an area on the Bavarian border and one of the hardest-hit provinces of the country — bodies were being piled up in the corridors, according to Austrian media reports.

Schallenberg said that introducing the new measures was not an "easy decision" but it was based on infection levels and "to protect all of us."

Austria's rate for fully vaccinated people is just 1 percentage point below the average across the European Union, but higher than the rate of 59 percent in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There has been political resistance to imposing a vaccine mandate in Austria. But experts said they saw little potential for pushback on legal grounds over the mandate.

"In this current situation, things are so dramatic, catastrophic even, that there won't be any constitutional issues for a vaccine mandate," said Heinz Mayer, a constitutional expert and former dean of the law faculty of the University of Vienna.

"We've never had such a dramatic situation. Each day, dozens of people are dying, unnecessarily. It's out of control," he added.

Meanwhile, Austria's new lockdown begins Monday. Nonessential businesses will close, and residents will be asked not to leave home except for reasons such as going grocery shopping or visiting a doctor.

The new restrictions were an "enormous" thing to ask of the vaccinated population, but too many people "showed a lack of solidarity," said Schallenberg, who took over as chancellor last month after fellow conservative party-member Sebastian Kurz was forced to resign.

Austria's famed Christmas markets, some of which had just opened for the season, will be forced to shut down. The new restrictions will be reevaluated after 10 days and, after 20 days, could revert to a lockdown only on the unvaccinated.

Other measures, such as imposing a lockdown only on the unvaccinated earlier this week, have not sufficiently increased vaccination rates, the chancellor said. And infection numbers have continued to rise.

The seven-day incidence rate — the number of infections per 100,000 residents over the past week — rose to 991 as of Wednesday in Austria, almost doubling from two weeks earlier. The U.S. seven-day new case rate on Wednesday was fewer than 200 per 100,000, according to the CDC.

One doctor interviewed by the public television reminded viewers that, at the beginning of the pandemic, Austria took on patients from France's overburdened intensive care units. He said he was now hoping the French would reciprocate.

"We have to undertake hard measures, otherwise the health-care system will collapse," said Günther Platter, the governor of Austria's Tyrol region, who spoke at the same news conference with the chancellor.

Platter said the vaccine mandate is the only way to break the "vicious cycle" of surging infections and lockdowns.

It's unclear whether other countries will follow suit.

Italy has floated the idea of a full vaccine mandate but has so far stopped short of imposing one. In October, the country introduced a stringent workplace rule that requires all employees, in both the public and private sectors, to show a health pass to prove they are vaccinated against the coronavirus or have recovered or tested negative.

But a nationwide mandate in Italy remains an option, according to one government official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk candidly about the deliberations.

"Making anything mandatory is never nice," he said. "But it's a tool we have and can be used under extreme circumstances."

In France, vaccination is now mandatory for nurses, firefighters and in some other professions. Belgium earlier this week ordered employees to work from home four days out of five.

In neighboring Germany, where coronavirus rates have broken all-time records in recent days, the government has refrained from introducing vaccine mandates for any parts of the population and has said there will not be a lockdown for the vaccinated.

Still, new regional measures are being introduced in Germany. The southern state of Bavaria announced restrictions Friday, which will include contact restrictions for the unvaccinated and an order for restaurants and bars to close in hot-spot areas.

As of Monday in Berlin, only those residents who are vaccinated or have recovered can go to restaurants or bars.

In the early days of the pandemic in Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel assured citizens that vaccinations would not become mandatory. Some analysts believe such mandates can backfire and invigorate anti-vaccine movements, which have been particularly active in Germany.

But serious legal challenges to vaccination mandates have so far been limited.

Last year, the European Court of Human Rights ruled that compulsory vaccinations could be "deemed necessary in a democratic society."

The case had been lodged by families in the Czech Republic whose children were denied entry to school because they weren't vaccinated against diseases including measles, but legal experts said it could also be applied to coronavirus. "It's extremely frustrating, just very, very frustrating," said Konstanze Castaneda, 41, who works in film production. "But mostly I'm frustrated with the unvaccinated. They had a choice and we could have avoided all of this."

On the streets of Vienna, residents voiced exasperation at a new lockdown. At a traditional Christmas market outside the Hofburg, the former imperial palace of the Habsburg dynasty, Haelnur Deren, 21, wondered what they'd do with their stocks of heart-shaped gingerbread.

"It won't go bad right away, but who is going to buy gingerbread after Christmas?" she said. The lockdown for the unvaccinated was "pointless" she said. Questioning whether anyone would have stuck to it.

Hruby reported from Vienna. Stefano Pitrelli in Rome contributed to this report.

[Todd]

Austria to go into full lockdown as Covid surges

[Florestan]

The hospital discrepancy of course sounds unethical, especially if the reporters are relatively unprotected, or the sick people aren't specifically insisting on telling their story to the media.

The reporters wear a mask and that's all, and they are literally invading patients' private space. And the bitter irony is that in one such instance, the reporter announced beforehand that most infected people are not vaccinated and then proceeded to ask people in wards about their vaccination status only to find out that 2 of the 3 people interviewed were doubly vaccinated... I kid you not, I can look for the whole recorded thing and post it here, if you wish.

Now, the media is the media, they thrive on the sensational and would hang their own mothers in other to get higher ratings. But what about the managers of those hospitals, who allow such circus shows? Are they not bound by any ethical principle? Are they not responsible to their patients? Have they no moral sense whatsoever? My only educated guess is that indeed they are not and they have not.

In DK we've only had interviews after sickness, or with family members, or with doctors on or after work. Pictures of people in hospital are very few and non-identifiable.

Seems very reasonable to me.

[MusicTurner]

Well, it seems that some of the journalists aren't up to a good standard. I just read numbers from Romania, that the far majority of serious cases are non-vaccinated. On Nov. 2nd, it was 541 out of 591 fatalities, the authorities said.

But btw, Spain, Portugal and Italy have been continually mentioned here in DK lately, for their current, better status - due to a less hastened loosening of mask use, and the retaining of some restrictions.

[Karl Henning]

'Still in a purgatory.' COVID numbers have risen in Mass. ahead of holidays and winter weather

Few believe the virus will be eradicated so the focus is learning how to live with risk of infections for the foreseeable future.

By Kay Lazar Globe Staff, Updated November 19, 2021, 7:08 p.m.

The numbers are ominous. And they're coming just as families prepare to gather for what they hoped would be a return to more normal Thanksgiving traditions.

Yet in the last week, COVID-19 cases in Massachusetts have risen to levels not seen since last February. Hospitalizations have edged up, too. In European countries such as Austria — with higher vaccination rates than the United States — soaring infection rates have led to nationwide lockdowns and vaccination mandates.

How should Massachusetts residents, who have adhered better than most of their fellow citizens to public health recommendations, react to these new numbers?

"We are still in a purgatory, unfortunately, and no one wants to hear it, but we have to double down on our public health commitment," said Dr. Howard Koh, a former Massachusetts health commissioner and now a professor at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

The latest state data show the seven-day average of new COVID cases has shot up 78 percent since Nov. 1, from 1,187 to 2,114. Hospitalizations have risen more slowly. They were up 26 percent during that same time period, to 663 on Friday.

The highest rates of infection now are among children 5 to 9 years old, the group most recently eligible for COVID shots. They account for 17 percent of cases in the past two weeks but make up just 5 percent of the population.

Still, there is one fact that brings hope: We are in a much safer place than a year ago now that we have vaccines, booster shots, and treatments to stave off the virus's most powerful punch, say many public health experts.

National COVID-19 forecasts, including the widely followed University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation model, project fewer cases, deaths, and hospitalizations in Massachusetts this winter than last winter.

As more Americans have gained protection against COVID-19, public health recommendations have loosened. A year ago, the message was clear: To flatten the rise in deadly cases, stay home. If you must go out, wear a mask. Today, medical specialists are no longer advising people to hunker down and avoid travel or family over the holidays, but rather to take reasonable precautions, get vaccinated, and consider infection rates in the community where they might be headed.

[Florestan]

Well, I just read numbers from Romania, that the far majority of serious cases are non-vaccinated.

Even if that were so, how can one force people to be healthy against their will, except by reverting to totalitarian measures? The Romanian Constitution states clearly that health is a right. Now it has suddenly turned into an obligation --- without anyone having elected anybody to amend the said Constitution.

Are you really not at all concerned about fracturing society along vaccination lines and creating a whole class of untermenschen, ie the unvaccinated, who are blamed for all the evils befelling on the vaccinated and who should be excluded as far as possible from the society? Does it really not at all frighten you the thought that this situation could be the basis for policy-making in years to come? I sincerely doubt it, or at least I want to sincerely doubt it.

But btw, Spain, Portugal and Italy have been continually mentioned here in DK lately, for their current, better status - due to a less hastened loosening of mask use, and the retaining of some restrictions.

I am not opposed to mask use and to some common-sense restrictions --- but I am firmly opposed to turning vaccination and restrictions into principles on which society should be ordered until there will be not one single Covid-19 case recorded anymore, ie until Kingdom Come.

[Florestan]

Well, it seems that some of the journalists aren't up to a good standard.

Now, the media is the media, they thrive on the sensational and would hang their own mothers in other to get higher ratings. But what about the managers of those hospitals, who allow such circus shows? Are they not bound by any ethical principle? Are they not responsible to their patients? Have they no moral sense whatsoever? My only educated guess is that indeed they are not and they have not.

[MusicTurner]

Now, the media is the media, they thrive on the sensational and would hang their own mothers in other to get higher ratings. But what about the managers of those hospitals, who allow such circus shows? Are they not bound by any ethical principle? Are they not responsible to their patients? Have they no moral sense whatsoever? My only educated guess is that indeed they are not and they have not.

It would be interesting to know more about  where there is such a pattern, and to what extent, and where not.

[Que]

Not significant in numbers probably, but it shows something very significant -- pregnant women and parents are not groups which can easily be be dismissed, pilloried and vilified in a populist way. No-one's going to say of pregnant women "Anti-vaxx morons! Time to round 'em an put 'em in camps."  They show that we have large numbers of people in definable social categories which are making decisions based on bad information -- and that's a failure of something -- government probably.

[I am responding to Florestan as well.]

It is evident that there can be legitimate reasons not be vaccinated. Hence, not everybody that doesn't want to be vaccinated is an "anti-vaxxer".  In most cases this relates to a severely compromised immune system and/or a very frail physical condition. The best protection for this group of people is that everbody else is vaccinated.

Pregnancy. No, there is no (not yet) "100% proof" that it is safe.  But is is extremely rare that a (any) vaccination affects a pregnancy. It is clear however that a situation in which pregnant woman will develop a severe case of Covid, will lead to dangerous complications. The advice to pregnant women is therefore to get vaccinated. Sofar no cases of vaccine related complications (specific to pregnancy) are known. There are no certainties, but the risk assessment seems pretty straight forward to me. And again: if everybody else would be vaccinated, this dilemma wouldn't  exist.

Misinformation can be adressed; lack in trust is a problem that is harder to solve...

BTW Who is suggesting that anti-vaxxers should be rounded up and put in camps? 

[MusicTurner]

Even if that were so, how can one force people to be healthy against their will, except by reverting to totalitarian measures? The Romanian Constitution states clearly that health is a right. Now it has suddenly turned into an obligation --- without anyone having elected anybody to amend the said Constitution.

Are you really not at all concerned about fracturing society along vaccination lines and creating a whole class of untermenschen, ie the unvaccinated, who are blamed for all the evils befelling on the vaccinated and who should be excluded as far as possible from the society? Does it really not at all frighten you the thought that this situation could be the basis for policy-making in years to come? I sincerely doubt it, or at least I want to sincerely doubt it.

I am not opposed to mask use and to some common-sense restrictions --- but I am firmly opposed to turning vaccination and restrictions into principles on which society should be ordered until there will be not one single Covid-19 case recorded anymore, ie until Kingdom Come.

The Danish government loosened restrictions too quickly, it now seems, due to an eagerness to return to the completely normal as soon as possible, and an unrealistic scenario of vaccines completely and quickly erradicating the virus. Likewise, they are now saying, that restrictions are likely to be more locally than nationally implemented, at least within the foreseeable future. Vaccines help massively in reducing the severeness of cases, and their number. Future treatment options are likely to improve the situation further.

As for obligatory vaccines, my impression is it can't lawfully be made mandatory here in DK. They're suggesting however that employers should have the right to demand it. It's absurd that you can work with people in the health- or elderly sector without being vaccinated, and with only irregular testing, putting other people's health at risk, for example (and people close to you can't even know your status). I know of such cases resulting in severe problems, say in hospitals or retirement homes. So in some sectors, it seems reasonable to me. But as regards a general mandatory vaccine, I'm against it, or it would require a drastic worsening of the situation, that is not very likely. The Austrian initiative is not the way to go now, at least in DK, but the hoping for a good, voluntarily improved development, with the help of some restrictions, and better treatments. If necessary, by employing massive ressources on it.

[Mandryka]

The Danish government loosened restrictions too quickly, it now seems, due to an eagerness to return to the completely normal as soon as possible, and an unrealistic scenario of vaccines completely and quickly erradicating the virus. Likewise, they are now saying, that restrictions are likely to be more locally than nationally implemented, at least within the foreseeable future. Vaccines help massively in reducing the severeness of cases, and their number. Future treatment options are likely to improve the situation further.

Why isn't Denmark following the UK's example?

[Karl Henning]

Russia's record virus death toll persists — 9:38 a.m.

Associated Press

Russia's record high coronavirus death toll persisted for a second straight day on Saturday, as the number of new infections declined.

The state coronavirus task force reported 1,254 COVID-19 deaths, matching Friday's tally.

The task force also reported 37,120 new confirmed cases. The daily new infections in recent weeks appear to have a downward trend but still remain higher than during previous surges of the virus.

The latest surge in infections and deaths comes amid low vaccination rates and lax public attitudes toward taking precautions. About 40% of Russia's nearly 146 million people have been fully vaccinated, even though the country approved a domestically developed COVID-19 vaccine months before most of the world.

[Que]

Why isn't Denmark following the UK's example?

Oh, the UK... that bright shining beacon of light in this dark world? 

[Karl Henning]

When can the COVID-19 masks finally come off? — 11:58 p.m.

New York Times

Amid the turmoil of the past two years — a period that included a deadly pandemic, mass layoffs, an ugly presidential election and an attack on the U.S. Capitol — some of the fiercest political debates in America have been waged over a nearly weightless piece of fabric: the face mask.

U.S. officials were slow to embrace face masks as a strategy for slowing the spread of the coronavirus. When they finally did, masks became a potent symbol of the pandemic — a common-sense public health measure turned political flashpoint and a visible reminder that life was anything but normal.

Now, with the summer's delta surge in the rearview mirror and the vaccination of school-age children underway, many Americans are wondering when the masks might finally come off.

[Florestan]

[I am responding to Florestan as well.]

It is evident that there can be legitimate reasons not be vaccinated.

Would you include among "legitimate reasons not be vaccinated" if I say "Based on (1) publicly available scientific information and using (2) whatever scientific skills I may have acquired as a M. Sc. in Mechanical Engineering and (3) logic and common-sense, and considering that I have officially recovered from Covid-19 and I refer you to point (1) in this respect  --- I have legitimate reasons not to be vaccinated"?

Hence, not everybody that doesn't want to be vaccinated is an "anti-vaxxer". 

Thank you.

In most cases this relates to a severely compromised immune system and/or a very frail physical condition. The best protection for this group of people is that everbody else is vaccinated.

Given that according to both official CDC  statements and published scientific data, vaccinated people can get infected and spread the disease, the above conclusion is not warranted in any way.

extremely rare that a (any) vaccination affects a pregnancy.

Once again, according to official Pfizer and Moderna documents:

There is limited experience with use of Comirnaty / Spikevax in pregnant women.

Then on what basis do you claim that it's extremely rare that a (any) vaccination affects a pregnancy? The best you can safely say is that based on limited experience it's extremely rare that a (any) vaccination affects a pregnancy. Which begs the question: what "limited experience" means scientifically, and what is the scientifically established threshold  over which you can safely claim that it's extremely rare that a (any) vaccination affects a pregnancy?

Furthermore, the selfsame official pfizer and Moderna documents state

Administration of Comirnaty in pregnancy should only be
considered when the potential benefits outweigh any potential risks for the mother and foetus
[/i][/b]

Which begs not one but two questions: (1) who is entitled, and on what basis, to decide that the potential benefits outweigh any potential risks for the mother and foetus? and (2) if the mother still decides that she doesn't want to get the vaccine no matter what, is it ethical, moral or legal to coerce her into getting the vaccine?

The advice to pregnant women is therefore to get vaccinated.

I'm sorry, but anyone who adviced them to get vaccinated without any prior assessment of whether the potential benefits outweigh any potential risks for the mother and foetus would act contrary to the official Pfizer and Moderna gudelines quoted above.

Sofar no cases of vaccine related complications (specific to pregnancy) are known. There are no certainties, but the risk assessment seems pretty straight forward to me.

I quote what I hear daily on Romanian TV channels: "You are not a physician, therefore you are not qualified to make statements regarding vaccines".

Who is suggesting that anti-vaxxers should be rounded up and put in camps? 

For the time being, nobody. Yet the very fact that unvaccinated people are denied certain basic freedoms and rights is reason enough for great concern --- at least for those people who still have living memories of how undesirable people were treated, and I hope you will not deny that today governments across Europe make clear by word and deed that unvaccinated are undesirable people.

[Florestan]

Oh, the UK... that bright shining beacon of light in this dark world? 

Why are you so angry about UK and lose no opportunity to paint them in black, I wonder? 

Look, I've been living and studying in The Netherlands for more than one year and I could make a very long list of grievances against Dutch mentality and society. Suffice it to say that only at the point of a gun could I be forced to live in The Netherlands for the remaining of my life. 

Seriously now, my point is that each country and nation have their own customs and ways --- and this is exacttly what makes the world an exciting, interesting and worth living in place. The very moment any and all man and woman on Earth would start thinking, feeling and behaving exactly the same the world would turn into a nightmarish Hell.

[Mandryka]

Oh, the UK... that bright shining beacon of light in this dark world? 

One critical success factor is how quickly we can get people to take their third dose. But most analyses I've read say that we're doing fine till the new year at least.  The new year will herald the start of a flu epidemic probably, so no-one can say.

The real interesting thing socially is how we can be all set for 50K+ covid deaths a year and hardly anyone's batting an eyelid. But then it's less than the number of smoking deaths.

My real point was that the vaccination rates in Holland and Denmark and indeed Austria are not dissimilar from the UK's -- so the British way may prove to be the best way for you guys too.  After all -- what's the alternative?!  I wouldn't want to gloat but I don't believe you've found a better alternative.

[Florestan]

It would be interesting to know more about  where there is such a pattern, and to what extent, and where not.

Agreed.

Romania is a blatant instance in this respect.

Are there any others?