Coronavirus thread

[Florestan]

Maybe, I hope so, but I think it is wishful thinking. I think it's best to be ready for things like work from home to be implemented again, and for the cost of improving ventilation in the workplace.

Working from home is not a restriction and I expect it will go on where applicable.

[prémont]

Great! If I don't believe the Romanian authorities, I'm a conspiracy theorist. If I believe them, I'm naive. 

This not about conspiracy theories, it's about lack of will to face the realities.

Talk about prophets of doom...  I suppose you are utterly opposed to the lifting of restrictions in Denmark and would like to see them back in place as soon as possible. 

As I told you before, I am in the most vulnerable group. With the excessive number of infected people in my country now (constantly more than one out of fifteen), I'm in a very serious situation, which I haven't been the cause of myself.

[Florestan]

As I told you before, I am in the most vulnerable group. With the excessive number of infected people in my country now (constantly more than one out of fifteen), I'm in a very serious situation, which I haven't been the cause of myself.

Yes, I know you are at risk and hope you stay safe and sound, but let's face the reality, as you say: a country cannot go from lockdown to lockdown for years and years just because some people are more vulnerable than others. Shutting down whole sectors of the economy and annihilating the social life of all in the vain hope that nobody will die anymore of Covid is absurd. It is to be hoped that vaccination corroborated with natural immunity and early treatment will minimize the fatalities but they will never be zero. Just as with common flu, which kills millions of people every year yet it's never made into a catastrophical situation requiring exceptional measures, so with Covid: eventually we'll have to settle down to living with it and accepting a number of fatalities as unavoidable. Sooner or later we all die, Covid or not. The fact that, say, 5% are at risk of dying sooner than the other 95% is no reason to disrupt the normal life of a whole country, especially if the vaccination rate & natural immunity is high and the availability of effective early treatment is widespread..

This may sound cynical but it's just hard-fact realism. After all, death is a more natural phenomenon than life because it's not mandatory that one be born but once born one must surely die.

That being said, I reiterate my best wishes for you. Take care, stay safe!

[prémont]

Yes, I know you are at risk and hope you stay safe and sound, but let's face the reality, as you say: a country cannot go from lockdown to lockdown for years and years just because some people are more vulnerable than others....

It's not just that I'm at some theoretical risk, but with the open society the corona virus has become so widespread (50.000 cases pr. day in a population of 6.000.000), that I can't avoid contracting it maybe relatively soon, because complete isolation is impossible. This is the reason why I feel, that the vulnerable group is helplessly sacrified. We are not all old and struck by dementia. Well we are vaccinated now and then, but the effect of this is dubious, and furthermore we have no really efficient drugs for treating the disease. In my country death numbers are rising (despite fewer patients at ICU), and this means, that the omicron, even if the so called experts say it only causes a milder infection, may give rise to very serious disease.

[Florestan]

It's not just that I'm at some theoretical risk, but with the open society the corona virus has become so widespread (50.000 cases pr. day in a population of 6.000.000), that I can't avoid contracting it maybe relatively soon, because complete isolation is impossible.

Yes, true --- but please consider this: an 85yo aunt of mine and a 75yo cousin of mine both tested positive last week. The former, which has oscillating blood pressure and irritable colon syndrome, had moderate fever for a few hours and a rather bad sore throat for 2 days; except that, nothing. The latter, which has bronchial asthma, had a temporary general weakness and some episodes of diarrhea; except that, nothing. Neither of them needed any specific treatment and are today okay, probably cured. It's obvious they had omicron. Also, a lot of my wife's work colleagues and their families as well as my best friend and his children (not his wife, though, much to her chagrin because she couldn't get a Covid Pass) had it without any serious symptoms. I know that anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all but I hope you can take some comfort from this: even if, God forbid!, you catch the omicron your chances of displaying only mild symptoms and of getting cured without any specific treatment, let alone hospitalization, are high.

This is the reason why I feel, that the vulnerable group is helplessly sacrified.

You certainly have a point and if I were you I'd probably think the same.

We are not all old and struck by dementia.

Of course not and it's all the more reason to hope for the better in the unfortunate case of getting Covid. I don't know how old are you but judging by what happens in Romania even with old people, you shouldn't worry too much --- which is not to say you shouldn't worry at all.

In my country death numbers are rising (despite fewer patients at ICU), and this means, that the omicron, even if the so called experts say it only causes a milder infection, may give rise to very serious disease.

I told you only what I've seen with my own eyes or heard from completely trustful sources and which all converge towards this: omicron is indeed milder and much less life-threatening than delta even for many of the elderly. The children and the healthy have abolutely no reason to fear it.

So bottom line, I'd say by all means, be cautious and take all the measures within your reach and power to avoid infection but don't live your life in constant and permanent fear and panic. Such a state might damage you in worse ways than omicron.

Anyway, I'd like to add you to my prayers from now on, if you don't mind. I believe your name is Poul, am I mistaken?

[Karl Henning]

Yes, true --- but please consider this: an 85yo aunt of mine and a 75yo cousin of mine both tested positive last week. The former, which has oscillating blood pressure and irritable colon syndrome, had moderate fever for a few hours and a rather bad sore throat for 2 days; except that, nothing. The latter, which has bronchial asthma, had a temporary general weakness and some episodes of diarrhea; except that, nothing. Neither of them needed any specific treatment and are today okay, probably cured. It's obvious they had omicron. Also, a lot of my wife's work colleagues and their families as well as my best friend and his children (not his wife, though, much to her chagrin because she couldn't get a Covid Pass) had it without any serious symptoms. I know that anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all but I hope you can take some comfort from this: even if, God forbid!, you catch the omicron your chances of displaying only mild symptoms and of getting cured without any specific treatment, let alone hospitalization, are high.

You certainly have a point and if I were you I'd probably think the same.

Of course not and it's all the more reason to hope for the better in the unfortunate case of getting Covid. I don't know how old are you but judging by what happens in Romania even with old people, you shouldn't worry too much --- which is not to say you shouldn't worry at all.

I told you only what I've seen with my own eyes or heard from completely trustful sources and which all converge towards this: omicron is indeed milder and much less life-threatening than delta even for many of the elderly. The children and the healthy have abolutely no reason to fear it.

So bottom line, I'd say by all means, be cautious and take all the measures within your reach and power to avoid infection but don't live your life in constant and permanent fear and panic. Such a state might damage you in worse ways than omicron.

Anyway, I'd like to add you to my prayers from now on, if you don't mind. I believe your name is Poul, am I mistaken?

My mother, in her 80s also contracted it, but luckily it struck her only as the equivalent of a mild cold (the old garden-variety Coronavirus, I suppose.

[Florestan]

My mother, in her 80s also contracted it, but luckily it struck her only as the equivalent of a mild cold (the old garden-variety Coronavirus, I suppose.

Praise the Lord! May all GMGers past, present and future as well as all their loved ones stay safe!

[Johnnie Burgess]

Working from home is not a restriction and I expect it will go on where applicable.

I work in a call center.  There is no talk of bringing them back to the office.

[Holden]

"Next Covid strain could kill many more, warn scientists ahead of England restrictions ending"

There's that word again - 'COULD'. No proof, simple speculation by media based on spurious history and flawed science. Along with it's siblings, MIGHT, POSSIBLY, PREDICTED, etc -  any headline that contains any of these words I now simply dismiss. All they do is raise fear levels, encourage conspiracy theorists and sell media time which is money of course. Data is nearly always far more reliable than anecdotal 'evidence'.

[The new erato]

Indeed. There are many might be's and no need to speculate. I could name a number of treats that are more scary and perhaps more probable. Multi resistant bacteria anybody?

Edited for fat fingers on a small phone. 😀

[Mandryka]

Indeed. There are many might be's and no need to speculate. I could name a number of treats that are more scary and perhaps more orobable. Multi resistans bacteria anybody?

Indeed.

(I like orobable - sort of thing a cartoon pirate might say.)

[Mandryka]

I work in a call center.  There is no talk of bringing them back to the office.

I'm quite surprised at that. There is a huge amount of money invested in city centre realty, I don't think any government can afford to let it go.

But employers are no doubt keen to encourage work from home in industries like call centres because they're saving the cost of office space, and they can use technology now to monitor exactly what their staff are up to, so they can micromanage remotely. There's also evidence to say that workers work more hours when they're working from home.

[Florestan]

"Next Covid strain could kill many more, warn scientists ahead of England restrictions ending"


There's that word again - 'COULD'. No proof, simple speculation by media based on spurious history and flawed science. Along with it's siblings, MIGHT, POSSIBLY, PREDICTED, etc -  any headline that contains any of these words I now simply dismiss. All they do is raise fear levels, encourage conspiracy theorists and sell media time which is money of course.

+ 1.

[71 dB]

The Romanian minister of Health announced that all the data show that in March the number of cases will plummet marking the end of the pandemic in our country. Consequently all restrictions will be ditched by the end of March with the possible exception of the mask mandate indoor. It's over.

It is looking like the pandemic is finally ending before our eyes, but I don't lick before it drops. I thought a year ago the pandemic will be over by fall 2021 thanks to the vaccines, but the delta variant (and somewhat larger vaccine hesitancy than expected) provided us with a nasty plot twist.

Bad things last a long time. Good things are over fast. That's life and it sucks...

[Johnnie Burgess]

I'm quite surprised at that. There is a huge amount of money invested in city centre realty, I don't think any government can afford to let it go.

But employers are no doubt keen to encourage work from home in industries like call centres because they're saving the cost of office space, and they can use technology now to monitor exactly what their staff are up to, so they can micromanage remotely. There's also evidence to say that workers work more hours when they're working from home.

The company I work for is not leaving the building.  The city will still get its property taxes.  Attendance has been better. 

[Madiel]

There has been much discussion about how some office space might get converted to residential.

The whole notion that you work in a significantly different place to where you live is a relatively recent invention, even though WE are pretty used to it. But it does lead to city centres that aren't designed for actually living in and have businesses geared entirely to the daytime rhythm.

[Mandryka]

The company I work for is not leaving the building.  The city will still get its property taxes.  Attendance has been better.

That's interesting -- why are they keeping the building if they don't need it for the staff to work in?

[ritter]

That's interesting -- why are they keeping the building if they don't need it for the staff to work in?

I'm a bit sceptical of the whole "homeworking revolution".

At least here in Spain, when you hear commentators talk about the issue, you'd believe that everyone lives in a 5.000 sq. ft. flat or house, with a separate working area for each member of the household. The reality, though, is that a large majority of workers live in an 800 sq. ft. flat: husband, wife, two children, the unmarried uncle, the widowed grandmother, and the dog (or whatever family structures you may have). And many employees are desperate to get back to the office in those circumstances.

Thus, homeworking is not as comfortable and practical as is being told to us, not for the employee, and also not for the employer: many interactions within and between teams, training issues, etc. become very cumbersome when done remotely.

The trend is for companies to keep office space, but focus on high quality and efficiency. A mixed work model (2 days at home, 3 in the office, for instance) is taking hold.

[Karl Henning]

I'm a bit sceptical of the whole "homeworking revolution".

At least here in Spain, when you hear commentators talk about the issue, you'd believe that everyone lives in a 5.000 sq. ft. flat or house, with a separate working area for each member of the household. The reality, though, is that a large majority of workers live in an 800 sq. ft. flat: husband, wife, two children, the unmarried uncle, the widowed grandmother, and the dog (or whatever family structures you may have). And many employees are desperate to get back to the office in those circumstances.

Thus, homeworking is not as comfortable and practical as is being told to us, not for the employee, and also not for the employer: many interactions within and between teams, training issues, etc. become very cumbersome when done remotely.

The trend is for companies to keep office space, but focus on high quality and efficiency. A mixed work model (2 days at home, 3 in the office, for instance) is taking hold.

That hybrid model is now in use by my pre-stroke employer. For us admin/support staff who earn rather less than the portfolio managers and industry analysts, working from home is indeed more stressful and invasive.

[Johnnie Burgess]

That's interesting -- why are they keeping the building if they don't need it for the staff to work in?

Not all work from home, I do not.  And it seems for training it is better to do on site.