USA Politics

[Florestan]

So, he's 77 = he's decrepit. 

No. I even take back "decrepit". But I stand by USA having become a ridiculous gerontocracy.

[Herman]

The thing with the looting and arson is it's assumed BLM folks are responsible. But rightwing provocateurs are smashing windows and setting cars on fire, too, knowing leftwingers will be blamed for it. Think Umbrella Man in Minn.

In addition Fox and the GOP are airing clips of burning streets that turn out to be stock videos coming from other places in the world. This is where these stories about "destroying cities" come from. From France or elsewhere.

It's all propaganda.

[BasilValentine]

that's why "defund the police" sounds so silly. I know I know, it's reform. Fine. I'm all for it. But be careful about wanting police to step back. Let's remember that Blake is a rapist, Brooks was drunk behind the wheel of a car, gave one cop a concussion and grabbed the other's taser, and that Floyd had sold drugs and held a gun on a pregnant woman. It's doesn't mean they deserved to be shot or choked, particularly Floyd who appears to have been murdered. The militias are dangerous and so are criminals like the ones mentioned above. It's bourgeois privilege to want to get rid of cops. Pulling back the cops is going to hurt communities of every ethnic background. This isn't just an opinion, it's backed up by research. Anyone can look up the work of Harvard economist Roland Fryer and see what I'm talking about.

I don't want police to step back and I don't wish to see them defunded. I want them to do their jobs, which, in recent cases, should have meant dispersing or arresting armed militia groups at protests, rather than encouraging them. The Kenosha police all but invited at least one militia group that wrote to them in advance indicating their intention to appear. This went against long-standing department policy. Moreover, they provided material support for the militias rather than doing something as basic as asking a child with a gun for ID to verify he was legally carrying before he ended up killing two people with it. Instead: "Here kid, have some water. We appreciate you."

The Brooks and Blake cases are examples of police incompetence (among other things). The answer isn't defunding, it's better training and better screening of applicants. The Floyd case is the other side of the coin: The officer who murdered Floyd was a police trainer.

[Todd]

In addition Fox and the GOP are airing clips of burning streets that turn out to be stock videos coming from other places in the world. This is where these stories about "destroying cities" come from. From France or elsewhere.

KPTV, KATU, KGW, and KOIN all broadcast the Portland riots live every night.  No need for stock footage in Stumptown.  Fresh footage of lefty arson, looting, intimidation, and destruction gets broadcast every night, usually with young female reporters only yards away from the action.  I dare say WBBM, WTMJ, WMAQ, and WITI do the same.  People with internet connections can look up the hundreds of reports filed with a few mouse clicks.  However, doing so would detract from the ability to generate some home-grown propaganda.  The Dutch variety is particularly flimsy, but some others on the board may have some actual writing talent and can take up the call.

As to the Beaver State, turns out Governor Brown's plan to restore the peace has a wee bit of a problem.  She forgot to include the sheriffs of Washington and Clackamas counties in her planning, and, exactly like Donald Trump, she issued an order without actually having the power to do so.  The Sheriffs not so politely declined to assist.  Womp womp.

[Herman]

https://www.businessinsider.nl/rnc-used-video-of-barcelona-in-video-about-us-protests-2020-8?international=true&r=US

from the "lefty" Business Insider.

[Karl Henning]

No. I even take back "decrepit". But I stand by USA having become a ridiculous gerontocracy.

It's got to change, yes.

[Karl Henning]

The thing with the looting and arson is it's assumed BLM folks are responsible. But rightwing provocateurs are smashing windows and setting cars on fire, too, knowing leftwingers will be blamed for it. Think Umbrella Man in Minn.

In addition Fox and the GOP are airing clips of burning streets that turn out to be stock videos coming from other places in the world. This is where these stories about "destroying cities" come from. From France or elsewhere.

It's all propaganda.

Seems Mr Brain Chemicals is just an agitprop funnel

[Todd]

https://www.businessinsider.nl/rnc-used-video-of-barcelona-in-video-about-us-protests-2020-8?international=true&r=US

from the "lefty" Business Insider.

Yep, Dutch propaganda is flimsy.

[Karl Henning]

.

[greg]

That's why only adults have the vote.

But rest assured, it's written all over your posting history you'd vote Trump if you didn't have to get out of your home to vote. All your "brain chemicals" yearn for the big man.

The point
--------------
Your head

The point would be to piss off whoever is pestering me to vote. Doesn't matter which side. Ridiculing my choice to not vote is just being a judgemental ass.

So now that you get the point, don't talk to me.

[Todd]

The point
--------------
Your head

The point would be to piss off whoever is pestering me to vote. Doesn't matter which side. Ridiculing my choice to not vote is just being a judgemental ass.

So now that you get the point, don't talk to me.

Herman, like many others on this board, is here merely to virtue signal. 

[Karl Henning]

Our whackjob Prez

Trump's New Conspiracy Theory

[Herman]

Former Bush speech writer David Frum in The Atlantic about Trump's view of Red and Blue America:

"Since we are [in Trump's view] two countries, we can have two sets of laws and rules: one for friends, another for enemies. That's why so many prominent Trump supporters can look at the shooting in Kenosha and perceive the gunman, who went to a city where he did not live with an AR-15-style rifle in hand, as acting in self-defense. The gunman had legitimate rights that must be respected. The dead men did not, and neither did all the many victims this year of police shootings. If those victims had criminal records, then they were criminals—unlike, say, Michael Flynn, who remains a rights-bearing American despite his criminal record. Two countries, two classes of citizen, two systems of law.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/08/trump-secessionist-top/615847/

[milk]

I don't want police to step back and I don't wish to see them defunded. I want them to do their jobs, which, in recent cases, should have meant dispersing or arresting armed militia groups at protests, rather than encouraging them. The Kenosha police all but invited at least one militia group that wrote to them in advance indicating their intention to appear. This went against long-standing department policy. Moreover, they provided material support for the militias rather than doing something as basic as asking a child with a gun for ID to verify he was legally carrying before he ended up killing two people with it. Instead: "Here kid, have some water. We appreciate you."

The Brooks and Blake cases are examples of police incompetence (among other things). The answer isn't defunding, it's better training and better screening of applicants. The Floyd case is the other side of the coin: The officer who murdered Floyd was a police trainer.

I bet there are more police departments cozy with these militia-type organizations. That's unacceptable. Maybe there is some national legislation that can penalize it somehow.
For police abuse:
On the one hand, more can certainly be done. On the other hand, there are going to be these incidents. It's a big country with a lot of guns and a lot of cops. Even the incidents people are freaking out about are not all clear-cut. Take the Brooks shooting. That's the Atlanta one? Those cops were in a life and death struggle with him; he gave one cop a concussion. He grabbed the taser and turned to fire it. They'll never convict that cop; nor should they. Brooks was a pretty bad guy, judging from his criminal history. I can see how the media tried to justify his actions by considering the penalty he was facing in terms of the revocation of his parole. But we still have a system that penalizes violent criminality. At least we have it until BLM get their way.
Anyway, I agree with you about training and competence and getting right-wing militias away from police work - of course.

[Herman]

training and competence and getting right-wing militias away from police work - of course.

That's going to be next to impossible with the current president.

[BasilValentine]

I bet there are more police departments cozy with these militia-type organizations. That's unacceptable. Maybe there is some national legislation that can penalize it somehow.
For police abuse:
On the one hand, more can certainly be done. On the other hand, there are going to be these incidents. It's a big country with a lot of guns and a lot of cops. Even the incidents people are freaking out about are not all clear-cut. Take the Brooks shooting. That's the Atlanta one? Those cops were in a life and death struggle with him; he gave one cop a concussion. He grabbed the taser and turned to fire it. They'll never convict that cop; nor should they. Brooks was a pretty bad guy, judging from his criminal history. I can see how the media tried to justify his actions by considering the penalty he was facing in terms of the revocation of his parole. But we still have a system that penalizes violent criminality. At least we have it until BLM get their way.
Anyway, I agree with you about training and competence and getting right-wing militias away from police work - of course.

The most critical issue, as far as I'm concerned, goes along with Herman's recognition of two Americas with two different systems of law enforcement. The police have been coddling terrorist hate groups like the Proud Boys, whose record of violence is a matter of public record, and focusing enforcement measures on largely peaceful protestors. For example, when curfew time comes who do they go after first? The ones with the fire power and record of violence or the easier targets with whose ideology they disagree? Right! Look at Kenosha. They failed to disperse the armed right wingers, instead enlisting them in their efforts. Officers whose priority is public order and safety would not do this. Theirs are politically motivated choices favoring Trump supporters and white supremacists. Why? Look at Michael German's recent work with the Brennan Center for analysis of the prevalence of white supremacists in law enforcement and the failure of police departments in many states and municipalities to police their own.

[milk]

The most critical issue, as far as I'm concerned, goes along with Herman's recognition of two Americas with two different systems of law enforcement. The police have been coddling terrorist hate groups like the Proud Boys, whose record of violence is a matter of public record, and focusing enforcement measures on largely peaceful protestors. For example, when curfew time comes who do they go after first? The ones with the fire power and record of violence or the easier targets with whose ideology they disagree? Right! Look at Kenosha. They failed to disperse the armed right wingers, instead enlisting them in their efforts. Officers whose priority is public order and safety would not do this. Theirs are politically motivated choices favoring Trump supporters and white supremacists. Why? Look at Michael German's recent work with the Brennan Center for analysis of the prevalence of white supremacists in law enforcement and the failure of police departments in many states and municipalities to police their own.

Sounds like a way oversimplification. The biggest problem in many communities is crime. That's not to say that these militia aren't connected to cops in some places. I doubt it's important in Chicago, Detroit and Baltimore.

[arpeggio]

Common stares dictates that there are nut jobs on both ends of the spectrum aggravating the situation.

The dilemma we are in is that one of them is the President.

If the President was a Democrat who behaved like Trump, the right would be having a tantrum.

Anyone who breaks the law, right or left, should suffer the consequences.

[arpeggio]

I have concerns over the behavior of the police.  Just because there are some elements on the left who are behaving badly do not invalidate those concerns.

[arpeggio]

One can easily come up with exceptions that prove nothing.