USA Politics

[Karl Henning]

"Local officials in states with surging coronavirus cases issued dire warnings Sunday about the spread of infections, blaming outbreaks in their communities on early reopenings and saying the virus was rapidly outpacing containment efforts." As bad as the situation in states such as Texas, Florida and Arizona are right now, a true catastrophe may be in store for states if hospitals are overrun and intensive care beds must be rationed.

President Trump deserves a good deal of the blame for playing down the pandemic and goading governors to reopen. However, it was these states' governors who arrogantly defied expert advice and replete warnings about closing down too late and opening too soon. They ultimately made the decision to follow Trump's horrendously dangerous advice."

[greg]

Sounds like rationalizations for you to continue in ignorance of the facts.  Your trip.

Sure. I ignore 'facts' even if there's no reason to do so. Right.

What is presented as 'facts' is highly colored by subjective interpretation, ignoring all doubt.

[greg]

Guess he's not allowed to think for himself.

Exactly. Tribalism.

Also I seem to be ignoring the fact of what Trump said about Mexico, not discussing that apparently?... ehhh hold on... ummm...

[Herman]

yeah, I meant Ben Carson, stupid mistake.

It may or may not have something to do with that the only cabinet members who ever get to talk are Mnuchin, Pence and "my Wilbur".

[SimonNZ]

Yawn. Not going to waste more time with this.

Good. Please don't. These aren't "thought experiments" or whatever you're calling them, its you refusing to acknowledge a lot of problematic behavior being at the very least problematic. If anyone here is displaying a cult-like commitment to one view its you.

You say you'll only suspect Trump is a racist if he does something overt and openly and unambiguously racist? No you wont. You'll rationalize that too. You'll be like the Trumpists who were asked what they'd think if he really did shoot someone on 5th Avenue and replied "he must have had a good reason".

[greg]

Good. Please don't. These aren't "thought experiments" or whatever you're calling them, its you refusing to acknowledge a lot of problematic behavior being at the very least problematic. If anyone here is displaying a cult-like commitment to one view its you.

You just used a circular sentence. "Not acknowledging problematic behavior as problematic." That's literally a non-response.

(BTW I never said there wasn't any room for suspicion).

It's like "not acknowledging the existence of a god who exists." Meaningless.


What cult would I even belong to? A cult of one(myself)? I guess that could be true.

I think the idea of 12 Angry Men was a good one. Judge based on reasonable doubt rather than reasonable suspicion. That's my approach.

You say you'll only suspect Trump is a racist if he does something overt and openly and unambiguously racist? No you wont.

I literally just mentioned a real example of this happening. But it turned out the tweet is fake.

[Karl Henning]

Uncle Dysfunction

[Karl Henning]

For Greg, in case his "thought experiments" should extend to drawing info from outside his own mind.

The Race-Hustler-in-Chief

[greg]

This comes just a few days after he shared a video of an old white guy with a thick Northeastern accent on a golf cart shouting "white power."

Which they fail to mention he took down because it wasn't audible...

if he wanted to share someone saying "white power," he would keep it up because he is a loud, overt person, not someone that communicates covert and sneakily.


This:

With that backdrop there are only three ways to interpret Trump's remarks:

1) He is purposefully instigating racial tensions because he believes that it will help him politically if there is a race war.

2) He is a racist with no self-control and is engaging in self-sabotage.

3) He is too stupid to realize what he is doing and he is just recklessly tweeting anything that he sees on Fox & Friends or that his racist buddies said to him in a recent phone call.

is a response to this?:

Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!

Okay, maybe #3? So? Everyone knows he has a tweeting problem.

They just casually throw the word racist in there. Pretty soon the word will wear out from over use.

I really hope you're not implying that calling out a proven hoax of a hate crime is racist... really, really hope not.

[greg]

My basic question, to give one example, so I don't get misunderstood:

How is wanting a wall built between Mexico and the US racist?

I also addressed the "Mexican rapists" quote. How does this comment on the color of anyone's skin (rather than just nationality)? And how is it not because of the reasons addressed (illegal immigration/drugs/gangs/crime) instead? If Mexico were white and had the same issues, how do you know he wouldn't take the same approach?

This is not "thinking experiments." It's just basic critical thinking skills.

[SimonNZ]

If it were just a matter of your proud critical thinking skills then you wouldn't need to be asking us to answer these questions for you. There's now a vast amount of writing on the uselessness and inefficiency of The Wall, in any Trump version, for preventing illegal immigration, and certainly for preventing drug trafficking. That all it does is please the racist elements in his base and reward his friends with lucrative contracts. And cost a lot of money that Mexico was never going to be paying.

[greg]

If it were just a matter of your proud critical thinking skills then you wouldn't need to be asking us to answer these questions for you. There's now a vast amount of writing on the uselessness and inefficiency of The Wall, in any Trump version, for preventing illegal immigration, and certainly for preventing drug trafficking. That all it does is please the racist elements in his base and reward his friends with lucrative contracts. And cost a lot of money that Mexico was never going to be paying.

It's a fair criticism of the wall.

But probably no point in asking in answers, that may be true. Mostly I'm pointing out the gaps in logic...

why? Because it leads to dangerous beliefs, like some people admitting they believe the millions of people who voted for him are racist.

Some are, absolutely. But that is an extremely aggressive stance which is only going to lead to dark times. It reminds me of the accusations against people that the only reason someone wouldn't vote for Obama is because they're racist. It's an extremely divisive attitude. People need to take a step back and think.

The stuff he says is questionable. But I would hold off on labels for now.

[SimonNZ]

After 4/5 years of this and with another election looming? Its well past holding off. Its very much time to decide.

Stop asking us for a few paragraphs you can parse. Take a look at the full range of reporting from diverse sources and dig down yourself on these issues. For example read what people who live in towns or farms near the wall or areas for its planned construction have to say about its effectiveness or desirability.

[arpeggio]

My wife has made an interesting observation.  The Trump Movement has taken such hard-line positions on so many issue that they are forcing normally neutral people to take sides.  Instead of convincing most people the righteousness of their cause, they have has driven most people to the left.

[SimonNZ]

The terms of service for a recently started political forum:

"To the people complaining on Twitter about being banned on [name]. Please pay heed.

Here are the very few basic rules we need you to follow on [name]. If these are not to your liking, we apologize, but we will enforce:

— When you disagree with someone, posting pictures of your fecal matter in the comment section WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

— Your Username cannot be obscene like CumDumpster.

— No pornography. Doesn't matter who, what, where, when or in what realm.

— We will not allow you to spam other people trying to speak with unrelated comments like "Fuck you" in every comment. It's stupid. It's pointless. Grow up.

— You cannot threaten to kill anyone in the comment section. Sorry, never going to be okay

If ever in doubt, ask yourself if you would say it on the streets of New York or national television."

[SimonNZ]

I don't think that's fair. We've explained our views here before only to be called trolls, racists, and iffy people. I think most turned off by Trump were willing to vote for a good ol' big government liberal such as Biden. However, with the recent chaos in America I think many will swing back to Trump, who isn't preaching an anti-American kneel and take it on the chin message but one that celebrates America, its history, culture and institutions.

Moreover, you haven't voted Republican in over twenty years and are now a socialist. As a committed leftist it's understandable you wish to see more in your camp.

Why would the coronavirus chaos have people swinging back to Trump? And I'd be quite happy calling his bungling mismanagement"anti-American" and, especially, "take it on the chin".

[greg]

I was doing none of those things. I was telling him to be more widely informed. As by his own admission he is not.

I am aware of some of the big stories. I do keep up with the news somewhat, maybe not every single little story, though.

Another problem is people that don't keep with any more news than I do believing the narrative that he is definitely, unquestionably racist. If you keep up with more news than me, then fine, you aren't one of them, but maybe take some time to process and question what is being sold to you- whether the narrative is on your side or not. Maybe half and half between consuming and thinking would be a good balance.

After 4/5 years of this and with another election looming? Its well past holding off. Its very much time to decide guess.

Guess... because still the verdict is up in the air, it's still a guess based on what I've seen/heard.

[Karl Henning]

Running as the second Confederate President is not "celebrating America, its history, culture and institutions," it celebrates people who took arms against the Union (America) in order to preserve white supremacy.

The Trump cult pays no heed to inconernient facts, but Trump's incompetence, contemptible immorality, betrayal of US troops and divisive racism are convincing lifelong Republicans of the need to elect a decent man to the office.

https://www.youtube.com/v/mtO8mRH4lgI

[Daverz]

Amazed at how COVID-19 and the racial unrest is all pinned upon Trump. For a guy who obsesses over American politics you remain in terrible ignorance about how our government functions.

I have to give the Kiwi props over the guy who thinks the U.S. is still operating under the Articles of Confederation (or perhaps the Constitution of the Confederate States of America?)

[arpeggio]

I don't think that's fair. We've explained our views here before only to be called trolls, racists, and iffy people. I think most turned off by Trump were willing to vote for a good ol' big government liberal such as Biden. However, with the recent chaos in America I think many will swing back to Trump, who isn't preaching an anti-American kneel and take it on the chin message but one that celebrates America, its history, culture and institutions.

Moreover, you haven't voted Republican in over twenty years and are now a socialist. As a committed leftist it's understandable you wish to see more in your camp.

If conservatives really understood Democrats they would know most them are not socialists.  If Democrats were Bernie would have won.

Every Democrat is not guilty of what you claim they are in you remarks.  Just because a person expresses some concern over the behavior of the police does not mean they are anti-American.

Attacking government sounds good on paper but does not always work in the real world.  Sometimes the best solution to a problem is the government.  It seems that many thousands of people would have been saved if the federal government had a stronger response to the virus.

Constantly accusing Democrats and Independents of being things they are not just alienates them.  They will not become socialists like myself but they will stop supporting Republicans.

As far as racism I really do not know if the majority of Republicans are racist.  I do not think so.  All of the racists that I do know are Republican.  Enlighten Republicans will have a problem with race if they fail to confront the bigots in the party.