Quiz: Mystery scores

Maciek · March 28, 2009, 04:23:28 PM

Clues for mine 96, 97, 99:

one is by a very famous pianist of a very famous symphony
one is by a very famous violinist-composer of a very famous opera
and one is by a chap who once "stole" a libretto idea from Puccini (later got a congratulatory note from Puccini for managing to actually write an opera on the subject); friends called him Lura; as a small boy, he made a heartless, rude remark to the young Artur Rubinstein (and Rubinstein had a good memory)

sul G · March 28, 2009, 04:37:16 PM

Clearly Padarewski's Symphony.

Maciek · March 29, 2009, 03:46:04 AM

Yes, "clearly".

It does actually work more or less well when taken in separate doses, as if it was a series of three symphonic poems rather than one monstrous symphony. Though perhaps I shouldn't be using the word "monstrous" in connection to a piece that's merely 70 minutes long. After all, I'm in the place where confirmed Brianites dwell...

But then Szymanowski had other axes to grind: it was all about aesthetic ideals and the way old-fashioned, academic compositions such as "Polonia" were preventing Polish music from development. And the rather shallow and banal understing of patriotism presented by Paderewski and his ilk, whose idea of "national" Polish music was that it had to consist of a series of obereks, polonaises and mazurkas, preferably trimmed at the edges a bit, to fit a "civilized" a picture of what music should sound like.

Truth to tell, I hardly ever return to Paderewski's Symphony, and the impression is never very good. While, OTOH, I return to Szymanowski all the time, and even the earlier, less original pieces, always have some impact on me. However, there are also a couple of Paderewski pieces (admittedly, much shorter ones) I do listen to with pleasure - the quality of the pleasure may not quite reach the levels of my Szymanowski experiences but it's definitely pleasure of the same kind.

There. End of rant-slash-confession.

Maciek · March 29, 2009, 03:47:59 AM

Oh, and if anyone was wondering: I am not obsessed with Szymanowski's Prelude and Fugue. In fact, I've never heard the piece or even tried to play it. I just thought that that was a curious little anecdote.

Didn't expect it to get guessed so soon.

Guido · March 29, 2009, 05:59:33 AM

You should stop talking down Szymanowski's early pieces! Original ain't everything you know! The violin sonata is magnificent!

sul G · March 29, 2009, 07:35:22 AM

Yeah, Maciek - stop dissin' all those Polish dudes, man!

Maciek · March 29, 2009, 11:05:57 AM

Ha, ha, ha - that's me told!

Seriously, though, you know me guys. I have no love for Polish composers...

Maciek · March 29, 2009, 11:10:24 AM

And just so you get the full picture:

Item no. 1:

Quote from: Maciek on February 07, 2009, 03:56:48 AM
First of all, "early" Szymanowski would have to mean pieces written in the period between the late 1890s until about 1912 (Love Songs of Hafiz op. 26, completed in 1914, is usually considered the first piece of his "mature" period). Second of all, harmonically, the very earliest Szymanowski pieces (especially the Preludes and Etudes) were among the most adventurous music written at that time (and quite similar to Scriabin), there wasn't a trace of conservatism about them. Paradoxically, it wasn't until Szymanowski embarked on his studies with Noskowski (1901-1904), that a sort of retrograde movement could be noticed in his development. It took about 10 years to shake off Noskowski's "conservative" influence (those masterly yet annoying double fugues etc.). After that, he was again as innovative as possible - think about the novelty of some of the "middle period" pieces: the Violin Concerto, Metopes, Myths, Masques. His harmonic (atonal!) inventiveness can only be compared to that displayed, earlier - by Debussy, and later - by Bartok. And then, the middle "period" only lasted a couple of years, because at the end of World War I Szymanowski was already starting to develop a new aesthetic which would unite folk elements with a "constructivist" architecture.

Item no. 2:

Quote from: Maciek
I'm still keeping my recording of the Paderewski 'Polonia' Symphony.

Maciek · March 29, 2009, 11:56:07 AM

Are those fugues really annoying? I think I went a bit too far over there. OTOH, not as far yet as Szymanowski on Paderewski...

Guido · March 29, 2009, 12:58:50 PM

That's a nicely written and pithy little piece on early Szymanowski, cheers! I really want to hear myths now!

Maciek · March 29, 2009, 02:42:33 PM

Thanks. I can take the credit for the wording, which is mine (of course), but I'm no Szymanowski scholar - the content is all gleaned from things I've been reading recently. In that particular case I think everything can be tracked to one source: Zielinski's extremely enthusiastic monograph. His writing is very convincing and his attitude is infectious, you want to go out and get every single Szymanowski piece recorded.

Myself, I can only, and rather vaguely, recognize and grasp a composer's "harmonic inventiveness" when someone points at it with his finger and explains. Zielinski is good at that. He's also good at giving a "general perspective": constantly makes the reader aware of what other great composers where doing at the time Szymanowski was composing this or that piece; and Szymanowski always appears to be at least a step ahead of the others.

Oh, and BTW: the Myths are there.

[Afterthought addendum: There's supposed to be a very good book on Szymanowski in English, by Alistair Whightman, who has also written a decent book on Mieczysław Karłowicz. I haven't read the Szymanowski book. I have the Polish edition of the Karlowicz - but have only read bits of it. The Polish edition is slightly cut anyway (background stuff obvious to Polish readers).]

sul G · March 31, 2009, 02:05:34 AM

Guido · March 31, 2009, 02:49:56 AM

Larry is no longer contributing which I think is a big issue...

karlhenning · March 31, 2009, 03:45:44 AM

Quote from: Guido on March 31, 2009, 02:49:56 AM
Larry is no longer contributing which I think is a big issue...

Aye, Larry is missed!

Quote from: sul G on March 31, 2009, 02:05:34 AM
405 - BRITTEN - CURLEW RIVER - (REVEALED BY LUKE)

Tchah! And I ought to have known this 'un.

sul G · April 01, 2009, 01:27:46 AM

Quote from: Maciek on March 29, 2009, 02:42:33 PM
[Afterthought addendum: There's supposed to be a very good book on Szymanowski in English, by Alistair Whightman, who has also written a decent book on Mieczysław Karłowicz. I haven't read the Szymanowski book. I have the Polish edition of the Karlowicz - but have only read bits of it. The Polish edition is slightly cut anyway (background stuff obvious to Polish readers).]

What's your opinion of the Szymanowski book by Jim Samson (the Chopin scholar; and before you say anything you need to know that he marked my Janacek dissertation at university very generously, so I won't hear a word against him)? I think it's really a very good book indeed, full of Samson's usual getting-down-to-the-nitty-gritty harmonic exposes etc. But I don't have anything else to compare it to.

Guido · April 01, 2009, 01:50:36 AM

I thought you weren't meant to know who marked your dissertation? What was your title?

sul G · April 01, 2009, 02:01:12 AM

I'm not sure if I was meant to know or not; I'm sure I was told, actually, after the event, by my DOS, because I also know who marked my compositions (Robin, Sandy and Peter Dickinson, the first two liking it a lot, the last one less so). But whether I was supposed to or not, I'd know in the case of my dissertation in any case, because Robin wrote a letter to Jim Samson - saying, basically, 'I've already marked this so take your time; your new faculty [Exeter] looks great' - and it was still inside when the thing was returned to me.

The dissertation was about the development of Janacek's thought and his music in relation to aesthetic theories of the time; I can't remember the title offhand!

Maciek · April 01, 2009, 04:16:45 AM

Wow, in England you don't know who gives you your marks? How are you supposed get back at them afterwards?

Does DOS stand for "Dean of Studies" or something like that? (That's my guess but no dictionary confirms it...) Or do you mean DOS as opposed to Windows? I quite liked it, actually, none of that fancy graphical interface, no mouse cables, good fun.

Maciek · April 01, 2009, 04:27:57 AM

Wait a minute, where was I? Oh, Jim Samson. Don't know his book. I only know a couple of Polish books on Szymanowski (there are quite a few, as you can imagine). Currently reading the definitive monograph by Teresa Chylinska - came out at the end of last year, 3 thick, large volumes. She quotes Wightman (sorry for the typo in his name earlier on

) quite often. She does quote Samson on occasion as well. So it can't be a bad book.

However, judging by the number of index entries for each author, the ratio of quotations is about 4:1, so Wightman is still recommended.

(Of couse, what she quotes are their interpretations and musical analyses, she does not use them as source material. Ought to be obvious but wanted to state it clearly, just in case. 0:))

Chylinska gives a dizzying amount of biographical detail. But so far (slowly approaching the end of volume 1) I think I liked Zielinski's book much better. But then I generally like his music writing. His book about 20th century idioms was my theoretical introduction to contemporary music so it holds a special place in my heart. I also enjoyed his Chopin monograph. Have yet to read his old book on Bartok (one of his first books, I guess).

Dax · April 01, 2009, 04:44:16 AM

Wightman is OK as is Samson. Both are worth reading. Neither offered the particular kind of detail which I was after, however. But that's probably just me.

Quiz: Mystery scores

sul G

sul G

sul G

karlhenning

sul G

sul G