Last Movie You Watched

[Karl Henning]

Compare his Yojimbo to the American version:

[asin]6304698747[/asin]

with...

Bruce Willis, Bruce Dern, and Christopher Walken.  Directed by Walter Hill.  I thought it was a decent homage, but others did not.  I should revisit it after c. 20 years.

I like this!

And then, a couple of days later, I watched A Fistful of Dollars, "the other Western based on Yojimbo."  It was an eerie experience, hard on the heels of Last Man Standing.  I enjoyed A Fistful of Dollars better than I expected (although I wish the quality of the print and of the soundtrack had been improved);  still, must say that I enjoyed the Willis effort better.  And with William Sanderson as the hapless saloonkeeper!

[Moonfish]

I like this!

And then, a couple of days later, I watched A Fistful of Dollars, "the other Western based on Yojimbo."  It was an eerie experience, hard on the heels of Last Man Standing.  I enjoyed A Fistful of Dollars better than I expected (although I wish the quality of the print and of the soundtrack had been improved);  still, must say that I enjoyed the Willis effort better.  And with William Sanderson as the hapless saloonkeeper!

On a similar note: I never quite understood the urgent need for remakes here in the US. Why not let Yojimbo stand on its own? Why spend millions of dollars placing the same story (with variation) in a different setting? I always have had a hard time to accept it. Why not make something unique and creative rather than doing the same thing over and over. Hmm, don't get me started on this topic so let's stick with Yojimbo. Why the need to redo it? Is it just to cater to a market that simply would never go and see the outstanding Kurosawa film, but need an iconic Hollywood star to do so?

[Karl Henning]

Well, if you're French or German, why read Shakespeare in translation?  (Though, honestly, I don't think the older Kurosawa films quite merit the analogy.)

[Moonfish]

Well, if you're French or German, why read Shakespeare in translation?  (Though, honestly, I don't think the older Kurosawa films quite merit the analogy.)

Hmm, the analogy does not work. The Germans already dub Kurosawa's films so that is a different thing altogether. Dubbing a film allows easy access to the language (even though jarring to a person not used to it). Once while in Germany I happened to watch Casablanca on TV and it was bizarre to watch Bogart speak German (especially with some of the iconic phrases from the film).
To redo the story in a new setting is a different matter. However, to stick with your example performing Shakespeare definitely (like opera) allows for some bizarre changes in dress and settings, but (interestingly) the language remains the same. Very peculiar. Why not change the lines at the same time to accommodate to the change in dress/staging? Once I watched 'Hamlet' in a Hells Angels setting. The actors wore leather jackets and rode motorbikes onto the stages while (of course) reciting Shakespeare's precious lines beautifully. It was quite a juxtaposition.

[Karl Henning]

I must agree that my analogy is a failure.  Will mull a bit.

[North Star]

Well, if you're French or German, why read Shakespeare in translation?  (Though, honestly, I don't think the older Kurosawa films quite merit the analogy.)

Subtitles..
I've only seen Ran on Youtube, and as I don't speak Japanese, I had to rely on the subtitles, which were auto-translated into English from Spanish... Still, I got the gist of what they were saying. And of course Ran is based on the legend of the Leir of Britain, as is King Lear..

I agree that a great script (story) certainly merits several adaptations - but it would be ludicrous trying to remake e.g. Ran in e.g. English and to expect it to replace the original, even for just subtitle-hating moviegoers. Language, speech, music, acting and directing are all main ingredients in a movie, and changing them changes the movie. Perhaps more than changing the script would.

[Karl Henning]

Subtitles..
I've only seen Ran on Youtube, and as I don't speak Japanese, I had to rely on the subtitles, which were auto-translated into English from Spanish... Still, I got the gist of what they were saying. And of course Ran is based on the legend of the Leir of Britain, as is King Lear..

I agree that a great script (story) certainly merits several adaptations - but it would be ludicrous trying to remake e.g. Ran in e.g. English and to expect it to replace the original, even for just subtitle-hating moviegoers. Language, speech, music, acting and directing are all main ingredients in a movie, and changing them changes the movie. Perhaps more than changing the script would.

Yes, I shouldn't advocate remaking the late masterpieces!  There are aspects of the older films which, for good or ill, made watching them rather a clunky experience.

Viz. Yojimbo:

Kurosawa stated that a major source for the plot was the 1942 film noir classic The Glass Key, an adaptation of Dashiell Hammett's 1931 novel. It has been noted that the overall plot of Yojimbo is closer to that of another Hammett novel, Red Harvest (1929).

. . . so, for the present discussion, I find the idea of considering Yojimbo an unimprovable Ur-text somewhat spurious

While I am in no hurry (I found it something of a hard slog), I shall watch The Seven Samurai again, as a friend has advised me that the commentary is of great interest.

Curiously, perhaps, the one I think best of is the earliest from among the three I have seen:  Rashomon.

[Moonfish]

Viz. Yojimbo:

. . . so, for the present discussion, I find the idea of considering Yojimbo an unimprovable Ur-text somewhat spurious
].

Ha ha - yes, perhaps everything is a remake after all if one probes deeply. I was not aware of Kurosawa's inspiration for Yojimbo. Thanks for educating me (if the source is correct ; -) ! Regardless, it does not take away the question of our obsession with iteration.

[Karl Henning]

Agreed, there is still worthwhile discussion!

Also agreed, that one takes almost anything on Wikipedia with the ol' grain of salt.

[Ken B]

I must agree that my analogy is a failure.  Will mull a bit.

Well then ask, why film Red Harvest at all, since it works so well as a book?

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

On a similar note: I never quite understood the urgent need for remakes here in the US. Why not let Yojimbo stand on its own? Why spend millions of dollars placing the same story (with variation) in a different setting? I always have had a hard time to accept it. Why not make something unique and creative rather than doing the same thing over and over.

There is a pronounced streak in many Americans of a desire for consistency as an end it itself.  This is why we go in droves to MacDonald's and Burger King. In fact, I've often heard diners say in a complimentary way, that a given restaurant's food is "consistent."  It's not really good food, or good for you, but it's consistent.  Remakes are attractive to consumers for a similar reason.  Americans are not esp. comfortable with the unknown, the exotic, the challenging...what doesn't fit into our conceptual Happy Meal box.  It may relate on a broader scale to why our international policy is so troubled - we expect consistency when there is little or none and we fail repeatedly to grasp the complexity of things.

[North Star]

Yes, I shouldn't advocate remaking the late masterpieces!  There are aspects of the older films which, for good or ill, made watching them rather a clunky experience.

Viz. Yojimbo:

. . . so, for the present discussion, I find the idea of considering Yojimbo an unimprovable Ur-text somewhat spurious

While I am in no hurry (I found it something of a hard slog), I shall watch The Seven Samurai again, as a friend has advised me that the commentary is of great interest.

Curiously, perhaps, the one I think best of is the earliest from among the three I have seen:  Rashomon.

Rashomon is great, I agree. But then again, I don't have anything bad to say about the other two either, except they could have used some better film...
I remember that Dashiell Hammett link being discussed before here.

YÔJINBÔ (1961)
Kurosawa

Mifune
Nakadai

Inspired by Dashiell Hammett’s novel The Glass Key, in turn inspiring Leone to make an almost scene-for-scene copy with A Fistful of Dollars - Kurosawa sued and got 15% of the profits, more money than he made with any of the films he produced. Apparently Leone was just delighted, since Kurosawa wrote to him sth like 'It's a fine movie, but it's my movie'

E: And I don't see why we shouldn't trust the Wikipedia article (the English Wikipedia is much more trustworthy than many encyclopedias).  Here's one source, interesting read

[Ken B]

Rashomon is great, I agree. But then again, I don't have anything bad to say about the other two either, except they could have used some better film...
I remember that Dashiell Hammett link being discussed before here.



E: And I don't see why we shouldn't trust the Wikipedia article (the English Wikipedia is much more trustworthy than many encyclopedias).  Here's one source, interesting read

Er no. It's Red Harvest, not the Glass Key.

[North Star]

Er no. It's Red Harvest, not the Glass Key.

You're right, I don't know how I messed up the title in last October..

[Ken B]

Agreed, there is still worthwhile discussion!

Also agreed, that one takes almost anything on Wikipedia with the ol' grain of salt.

Is there a Wikipedia entry on Wikipedia? If it described Wikipedia as unreliable, would it be reliable?

[North Star]

Is there a Wikipedia entry on Wikipedia? If it described Wikipedia as unreliable, would it be reliable?

http://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/08/02/seven-years-after-nature-pilot-study-compares-wikipedia-favorably-to-other-encyclopedias-in-three-languages/

[Moonfish]

All the teachers K-12 (in my experience) seem to tell the kids to never use Wikipedia when they are doing projects in their classes.  It is a bit bizarre as it contains a wealth of information (and is very current).

[ibanezmonster]

All the teachers K-12 (in my experience) seem to tell the kids to never use Wikipedia when they are doing projects in their classes.  It is a bit bizarre as it contains a wealth of information (and is very current).

Probably because sometimes it makes research too easy.

[Brian]

HAPPY COLUMBO'S DAY!!!!



"The Bye Bye Sky High IQ Murder Case"

[SonicMan46]

Tonight - streamed a couple of films from Amazon, one on my 'too watch' list and an older movie that I wanted to see again:

Railway Man, The (2013) w/ Colin Firth & Nicole Kidman - brief synopsis below from IMDB (rating, 7.1/10); Rotten Tomatoes, 66%; and Amazon, 4.4*/5* - based on a true story that was a slow starter but the second half confrontation between the two described below was dramatic and redeeming in the end - I'd probably do a 4* vote on Amazon and would recommend; now, not sure that I need to see the film again so will not be a purchase. 

A former British Army officer, who was tormented as a prisoner of war at a Japanese labor camp during World War II, discovers that the man responsible for much of his treatment is still alive and sets out to confront him.

Cold Mountain (2003) w/ Jude Law, Nicole Kidman, & Renee Zellweger - saw this film on release - good story & beautiful scenery but a little too long - on rewatch, paid more attention and enjoyed but probably not a purchase for me despite the North Carolina location, i.e. Cold Mountain is in the western part of the state near Asheville - not sure if there is much to see there but might plan a future visit?  Dave