The Historically Informed Performances (HIP) debate

[Sergeant Rock]

Instruments that were designed to do justice to Wagner are monumental overkill when it comes to any Mozart and most Haydn.

Szell and Casadeus's Mozart is "monumental overkill"  Szell's Haydn is "monumental overkill"  You have some strange ears, Gurn 


Sarge

[karlhenning]

The piano was never designed to do justice to Wagner.  Heavy artillery is needed for that ; )

[DavidW]

David Hurwitz has taken a hatchet to yet another HIP CD, using adjectives like "dessicated," "asthmatic," and "anorexic" to describe the ensembles sound.

But the surprising part of the review is this:

"After reviewing the last installment in this evidently ongoing series, I received the following note from conductor Michael Willens: 'Since you are clearly completely unimpressed with what we do, it might make more sense for you to jerk off at home rather then [sic] in public. I am sure that the classical music community and CD buying public will be most thankful.'"

Brian that was so unprofessional of Hurwitz to publicly share a private note.  Classics Today lacks integrity.  When they have a critic that doesn't appreciate or understand an entire culture, they should assign a different critic to review the recordings coming from that group.

[Gurn Blanston]

Szell and Casadeus's Mozart is "monumental overkill"  Szell's Haydn is "monumental overkill"  You have some strange ears, Gurn 


Sarge

Strange but happy, that's my motto.

[Gurn Blanston]

Brian that was so unprofessional of Hurwitz to publicly share a private note.  Classics Today lacks integrity.  When they have a critic that doesn't appreciate or understand an entire culture, they should assign a different critic to review the recordings coming from that group.

Very true, but also the sentiment of the note is excellent. Hurwitz has absolutely no credibility, at least with the PI community, so why keep him doing it? I hadn't thought of him as a jerk-off, per se, only a douche bag. But then, I lack imagination sometimes.

[Bulldog]

Talk about something we can not ever know: that composers from the 18th century would probably prefer to hear their works on modern instruments.   

That is not a question I care about.  For me it is simple, I like the way HIP/PI performances sound.  I also like modern instrument performances for some of this repertory.  There is no debate in my mind, it all comes down to what someone prefers to hear.

I agree that personal preference is the crux of the matter.  Do members know of any anti-HIP person who perfers the sound of harpsichords and other period instruments?  I don't.

[Gurn Blanston]

I agree that personal preference is the crux of the matter.  Do members know of any anti-HIP person who perfers the sound of harpsichords and other period instruments?  I don't.

Nope.

[Bulldog]

Very true, but also the sentiment of the note is excellent. Hurwitz has absolutely no credibility, at least with the PI community, so why keep him doing it? I hadn't thought of him as a jerk-off, per se, only a douche bag. But then, I lack imagination sometimes.

Agreed.  There is no merit in Hurwitz reviewing period instrument performances.  I think the problem here is that ClassicsToday simply does not have enough reviewers.  They tend to have one reviewer for vocal music, another for piano music and Hurwitz for everything else. 

[karlhenning]

Casa de Hurwitz, wot?

[Superhorn]

   I frequently am in total disagreement with Hurwitz about performances he reviews, but his strictures against SOME HIP performances are often right on target.   Like me, he's not at all opposed to HIP performances per se,and sometimes speaks quite favorably of them. 
But he  can tell when the emperor has no clothes. 

[Bulldog]

   I frequently am in total disagreement with Hurwitz about performances he reviews, but his strictures against SOME HIP performances are often right on target.   Like me, he's not at all opposed to HIP performances per se,and sometimes speaks quite favorably of them. 
But he  can tell when the emperor has no clothes.

I think it's clear that Hurwitz is opposed to HIP/period instrument performances.  He only likes them when they sound a lot like modern instrument performances, the type that rests within his comfort zone.

[Brian]

Agreed.  There is no merit in Hurwitz reviewing period instrument performances.  I think the problem here is that ClassicsToday simply does not have enough reviewers.  They tend to have one reviewer for vocal music, another for piano music and Hurwitz for everything else.

Yep. It seems to be Hurwitz, Distler, Carr jr., and David Vernier, who oddly enough if I remember rightly is Hurwitz' boss. Oh and Robert Levine for opera.

[DavidW]

I can't help but wonder if Hurwitz anti-HIP, anti-British, anti-golden era vitrol is deliberately over the top to attract readers...

[Gurn Blanston]

I think it's clear that Hurwitz is opposed to HIP/period instrument performances.  He only likes them when they sound a lot like modern instrument performances, the type that rests within his comfort zone.

Exactly! A trait he shares with many, I'm afraid. My personal belief is that they would like to believe in HIP/PI as a concept, and probably even do. But in the execution, the grim reality that 18th century instruments don't sound like 20th/21st century instruments sets in, and they just can't come to grips with it.

I don't hold it against them. Wish that was reciprocal.

[Gurn Blanston]

I can't help but wonder if Hurwitz anti-HIP, anti-British, anti-golden era vitriol is deliberately over the top to attract readers...

Wondered that myself. Same with Lebrecht.

[Leon]

I am not that familiar with Hurwitz, but when I subscribed to American Record Review Donald Vroom was decidedly anti-HIP, among other things, to the point of foaming at the mouth.

It was around that time that I 1) cancelled my ARG subscription and 2) began to ignore reviews, in general, but especially those based on what instruments were being used.

[Bulldog]

I am not that familiar with Hurwitz, but when I subscribed to American Record Review Donald Vroom was decidedly anti-HIP, among other things, to the point of foaming at the mouth.

At least Vroom is totally honest; he hates HIP and doesn't mince any words about it. 

[Clever Hans]

The sad fact is that Hurwitz and Distler are both envious uber-dorks. HA HA HA

We recognize our own kind!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbSZ1LWvFPg

BAHAHHAHHAHA

[Bulldog]

The sad fact is that Hurwitz and Distler are both envious uber-dorks. HA HA HA

We recognize our own kind!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbSZ1LWvFPg

BAHAHHAHHAHA

I listened to the youtube.  What was Distler doing?  Sounds like nothing more that syrupy new age jibberish; I really hate music like that.

[Cato]

I have not read Fanfare in years, but they used to have a very large array of telescopic and microscopic reviewers.   

I just discovered that they now offer - gratis - many of their articles without a subscription: I recall their reviewers being (in general) very expert and able to describe why they liked or disliked a recording or a work new to them.

See:

http://www.fanfaremag.com/