Handel: Messiah Oratorio

[DarkAngel]

DA,    This is a very enjoyable set with very refreshing performance and I was pleasantly surprised.  The soprano singing has a certain purity and naturalness to it compared with other sopranos who have often overdone in the coloratura department. 

OK since we all agree the Butt/Linn Records is a great version of Messiah has anyone taken the next logical step and purchased the same groups Bach St Matthew Passion? (I confess to taking the plunge)

[DarkAngel]

Another recording which is one of my favorites is that done in 1983 by Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra and The Sixteen.  I believe that it's been rereleased a number of times, so try and find a less expensive new version as opposed to the used editions usually found at Amazon.  You can find it at Presto Classical for about $12.00 which makes it a real bargain.

  New Cover: 

Bunny if only I had known this several days ago when I placed small order with MDT (UK) that included the new Andreas Staier Goldberg Variations it would have been in the buy basket also!   

[Novi]

DA,    This is a very enjoyable set with very refreshing performance and I was pleasantly surprised.  The soprano singing has a certain purity and naturalness to it compared with other sopranos who have often overdone in the coloratura department. 

Yay, finally someone else who likes Susan Hamilton. Everyone I've met really dislikes her voice. I like her kind of unrefined naturalness and that she sings with a lovely freedom, if that makes sense. There was a great moment in the Dunedin Consort's Actus Tragicus a couple of years ago where her 'Ja, komm, Herr Jesu' pierced through and simply soared joyously above the more uncompromising 'Es ist der alte Bund' - it was glorious.

I used the term low-budget to describe the production costs and not the performance, as I am convinced this recording cost a bit less to produce than most other versions.

OVPP = save on choir fee

[Bunny]

OK since we all agree the Butt/Linn Records is a great version of Messiah has anyone taken the next logical step and purchased the same groups Bach St Matthew Passion? (I confess to taking the plunge)

I've been considering that St. Matthew's, but I've read some very mixed things about it.  ClassicsToday is tepid; C/T France hates it, no surprise as they also hated the Dubin Messiah from the same forces.  Gramophone's review qualifies the positives and notes the negatives so relentlessly that I begin to think the reviewer couldn't make up his mind, or hated it but didn't want to offend.  Even the more enthusiastic reviews describe it as an "alternative" rather than a reference.  I'll be very interested in what you think of it!

[Coopmv]

OK since we all agree the Butt/Linn Records is a great version of Messiah has anyone taken the next logical step and purchased the same groups Bach St Matthew Passion? (I confess to taking the plunge)

Highly unlikely.  I only buy St Matthew Passion performed by either German or Dutch ensembles.

[Bunny]

Bunny if only I had known this several days ago when I placed small order with MDT (UK) that included the new Andreas Staier Goldberg Variations it would have been in the buy basket also!   

No matter!  I'm sure it will still be there the next time you order.

[kishnevi]

I used the term low-budget to describe the production costs and not the performance, as I am convinced this recording cost a bit less to produce than most other versions.  I actually have the version by the Sixteen and Harry Christopher on Hyperion, which I have not listened to in a number of years.  I do not have the version by Koopman, though I have two versions by Nikolaus Harnoncourt, which are the only non-British ensembles performing this work in my collection ...

There's also the recording Christopher and the Sixteen released on their own label, CORO, in 2008 (it was recorded in 2007, so it's not simply a re-issue of the Hyperion recording), with Sampson, Wyn-Rogers, Padmore and Purves as the solists.   Of the three recordings of M. that I have, it's my second preference: my first preference goes to the Jacobs set.  (Version number 3 is the one Colin Davis did with the LSO back in 1966, before some of us were born...)

[Coopmv]

There's also the recording Christopher and the Sixteen released on their own label, CORO, in 2008 (it was recorded in 2007, so it's not simply a re-issue of the Hyperion recording), with Sampson, Wyn-Rogers, Padmore and Purves as the solists.   Of the three recordings of M. that I have, it's my second preference: my first preference goes to the Jacobs set.  (Version number 3 is the one Colin Davis did with the LSO back in 1966, before some of us were born...)

The Colin Davis 1966 or 1967 Philips recording was a ground-breaking recording in the sense that it was the first set that decidedly broke away from the traditional Victorian practice espoused by Sir Malcolm Sargent when massive choir was used.  I believe it was then followed by recordings by Charles Mackerras and Raymond Leppard with the then newly created English Chamber Orchestra.  I still have the Sir Colin's Philips LP set in pristine condition.  I bought the set in the mid 70's.

I also have the Sir Malcolm's set on cassette tapes.

[Bunny]

The Colin Davis 1966 or 1967 Philips recording was a ground-breaking recording in the sense that it was the first set that decidedly broke away from the traditional Victorian practice espoused by Sir Malcolm Sargent when massive choir was used.  I believe it was then followed by recordings by Charles Mackerras and Raymond Leppard with the then newly created English Chamber Orchestra.  I still have the Sir Colin's Philips LP set in pristine condition.  I bought the set in the mid 70's.

I also have the Sir Malcolm's set on cassette tapes.

Sir Colin's second one with the BRSO (c. 1990) is not with small forces and is almost operatic in its scope.  However, it doesn't feel Victorian either.

[Coopmv]

Sir Colin's second one with the BRSO (c. 1990) is not with small forces and is almost operatic in its scope.  However, it doesn't feel Victorian either.

Was it 1990?  I thought it was earlier.  At any rate, the set is OOP but I may have taped it off the air on one of my open-reel tapes.  I am probably the only forum member that have a bunch of classical music on open-reels ...   

[Marc]

I like both recordings by Colin Davis, but the differences are very very marginal. In the sixties his approach was rather new, and in the eighties no one really was waiting for a rehearsal, I guess. Personally, I'm not that fond of the singing of Hanna Schwarz in the second recording. Therefore I prefer the first.

About Butt and his Bach SMP: very worthwhile IMO. Much more expressive than McCreesh (whose recording I find far too smooth) and better blending of the OVPP-choir parts.

BTW, here's a link to the SMP thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4877.0.html

[Coopmv]

I like both recordings by Colin Davis, but the differences are very very marginal. In the sixties his approach was rather new, and in the eighties no one really was waiting for a rehearsal, I guess. Personally, I'm not that fond of the singing of Hanna Schwarz in the second recording. Therefore I prefer the first.

About Butt and his Bach SMP: very worthwhile IMO. Much more expressive than McCreesh (whose recording I find far too smooth) and better blending of the OVPP-choir parts.

BTW, here's a link to the SMP thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4877.0.html

I hear you.  I have the Beethoven Symphony No. 9 by the VPO with Bernstein on DVD.  I did not particularly like the singing of Hanna Schwarz.

[czgirb]

This is not what you asked for, but a friend told me to listen to Beecham's.  It's on CD.

Yup! I absolutely agree with it ... I have both CD & LP (RCA Soria).
Don't forget the Gardiner (Philips) ... I have too ... both CD & LP.

[listener]

My selection is from LP: Beecham, Davis (LSO), Handel-Mozart with Mackerras on DGG-Achiv
and this cd with enough alternative versions to be able to re-create some 18 versions from Handel's time.  My preference is Beecham, but I heard the McGegan only once and maybe it will seem better if I don't listen to all the multiple versions .

[Leo K.]

I have been blown away by the McCreesh recording over the Christmas holiday. Last night, I felt I was in heaven while listening to part I. Wow.



The only other Messiahs I've heard are the Gardiner and Hogwood.

So, where should I go for other great HIP Messiahs? Pinnock perhaps?

[Coopmv]

I have been blown away by the McCreesh recording over the Christmas holiday. Last night, I felt I was in heaven while listening to part I. Wow.



The only other Messiahs I've heard are the Gardiner and Hogwood.

So, where should I go for other great HIP Messiahs? Pinnock perhaps?

The forte of Trevor Pinnock is instrumental music.  IMO, Christopher Hogwood and John Eliot Gardiner are better when it comes to choral works ...

[ccar]

                                                                 

           "Often we conductors encounter orchestral playing in which all possible virtues -- accuracy, elasticity, evenness, power, &c.-- are united,
                          but in which we miss one thing: the soul of music, the song that gives inward life to musical sounds." H.S.


Always controversial, Hermann Scherchen was probably too "free" to belong to any musical "crowd". No one can dismiss his technical command and musical insight but even today his readings never appealed to the historical academics or to the trendy orthodox "critics". Yet, Scherchen was a pioneer of the "modern" interpretative approach to "early music", looking for historical or document clues to help him to better interpret the notes and intentions of the composer. But in this search for objectivity he was much concerned with the "soul" of the music, with the quality and intensity of the musical expression, more than with the Holy Grail of historical "authenticity". In this sense, more than 'HIP' I believe Scherchen would probably prefer 'MIP' - musically informed performances.   
 
There are two recordings of the Messiah by Hermann Scherchen. The first, from 1953, was produced with the London Philharmonic Orchestra and Choir and English-speaking soloists (Margaret Ritchie, Constance Shacklock, William Herbert and Richard Standen). The latter one, from 1959, was recorded in stereo with the Vienna State Opera Orchestra, the Vienna Academy Choir and a number of famous soloists of the time (Pierrette Alarie and Léopold Simoneau, Nan Merriman and, as before, Richard Standen). The 1959 recording was reissued in CD by Universal (Westminster) some 10 years ago and the 1953 version was only more recently made available by Archipel.

The London recording was one of the first "complete" recordings of the Messiah and Scherchen tried to get as close as possible to Handel's famous work and to its "soul" by studying documents of the various versions. For this 1953 recording he used a small scale orchestra and chorus, giving unusual transparency to the textures and more agility to the phrasing. He looked for unaffected but expressive soloists and modeled the tempi and every music inflections to reinforce the words and its spiritual meaning. For me this first Scherchen recording, in good mono sound, is still one of the most expressive and beautiful renditions of the Messiah. Personally, I prefer it to his latter 1959 Viennese recording and also to many of the more "HIP" versions out there.
   

                               

[DarkAngel]

I have been blown away by the McCreesh recording over the Christmas holiday. Last night, I felt I was in heaven while listening to part I. Wow.



The only other Messiahs I've heard are the Gardiner and Hogwood.

So, where should I go for other great HIP Messiahs? Pinnock perhaps?

McCreesh is one of my top 3-4 Messiahs........
Only caution I will mention is that some parts have noticeably fast tempo which may not set well with those used to large scale traditional tempos, but nothing as extreme as the Minkowski Messiah for instance

Others with similar sound I really like are Layton/Hyperion and Pinnock/Archiv:

 


My all time favorite Messiah remains Christie/HM

[Bulldog]

I have been blown away by the McCreesh recording over the Christmas holiday. Last night, I felt I was in heaven while listening to part I. Wow.



The only other Messiahs I've heard are the Gardiner and Hogwood.

So, where should I go for other great HIP Messiahs? Pinnock perhaps?

Likely a minority opinion, I prefer the Boston Baroque on Telarc.  The interpretation is highly ceremonial and exciting, but not favorable for those who want a lot of reverence.

[Leo K.]

Thanks all for your comments and thoughts. After looking more at this thread and considering, I thought I may go for this next. The sound samples I've heard on iTunes sounds fantastic.