Handel: Messiah Oratorio

[Coopmv]

I know some consider Pinnock's work with this definitive, but I was less than impressed.  The soloists seem great, save the bass (Tomlinson) who sounds like he's singing with cotton balls in his mouth and/or whilst inebriated.  I thought it really lacked drama in the more exciting passages and seemed distant and disconnected from the work.  The same goes for Suzuki's; technically flawless, but lacking an emotional attachment.  One well-rounded performance I'm quite fond of is the live recording by Cleobury with the Brandenburg Consort and the Choir of King's College Cambridge...

I have the version by Trevor Pinnock as well.  It pales in comparison with the versions by Christopher Hogwood (the best in my opinion) and John Eliot Gardiner.  I have found Trevor Pinnock and his English Concerts excel in instrumental works but they are clearly not as polished when it comes to choral/vocal works.  Of the three English period instrument practitioners, I find Pinnock the best for instrumental works while Hogwood is the best for Handel's oratorios.  On the other hand, JS Bach's choral works appear to be John Eliot Gardiner's forte.

[Sorin Eushayson]

I have the version by Trevor Pinnock as well.  It pales in comparison with the versions by Christopher Hogwood (the best in my opinion) and John Eliot Gardiner.  I have found Trevor Pinnock and his English Concerts excel in instrumental works but they are clearly not as polished when it comes to choral/vocal works.  Of the three English period instrument practitioners, I find Pinnock the best for instrumental works while Hogwood is the best for Handel's oratorios.  On the other hand, JS Bach's choral works appear to be John Eliot Gardiner's forte.

Absolutely.  I noticed Gardiner's propensity for Bach as well.  I forgot about Hogwood's work here, though... It is, indeed, phenomenal, I should probably listen to it again sometime soon.  The only complaint I have is the soloists, but other than that it's magnificent.

[Coopmv]

Absolutely.  I noticed Gardiner's propensity for Bach as well.  I forgot about Hogwood's work here, though... It is, indeed, phenomenal, I should probably listen to it again sometime soon.  The only complaint I have is the soloists, but other than that it's magnificent.

What don't you like about the Soloists in Hogwood's version?  I think they are fabulous in general.  How can anyone dislike Emma Kirkby?  Judith Nelson is one of the best baroque soloists the US has ever produced and Carolyn Watkinson is excellent as well.  I also do not have any major quibble with the male soloists.  David Thomas is excellent as the bass while I am somewhat less impressed with the tenor but that is life - nothing is 100%.

[Sorin Eushayson]

What don't you like about the Soloists in Hogwood's version?  I think they are fabulous in general.  How can anyone dislike Emma Kirkby?  Judith Nelson is one of the best baroque soloists the US has ever produced and Carolyn Watkinson is excellent as well.  I also do not have any major quibble with the male soloists.  David Thomas is excellent as the bass while I am somewhat less impressed with the tenor but that is life - nothing is 100%.

We'll call it a gentleman's disagreement, then.

[Coopmv]

Selections from Hogwood's Messiah

http://www.mediafire.com/?mimmfwymznj

http://www.mediafire.com/?kuygijmjgzd


Selections from Marriner's 1976 Messiah

http://www.mediafire.com/?nrmxwrn5jwn

http://www.mediafire.com/?blmz4kniewd

[Que]

Just browsed through this thread, but maybe have missed it.

Anyway: what are the thoughts here on René Jacob's Messiah? 



Q

[rubio]

And has anybody here heard Frieder Bernius' quite recent Messiah? I generally like this conductor (I've just greatly enjoyed his Bach Christmas Oratorio ), and I also have a sweet spot for Carolyn Sampson.

[Coopmv]

Just browsed through this thread, but maybe have missed it.

Anyway: what are the thoughts here on René Jacob's Messiah? 



Q

Q,  Go with the English when it is Handel Messiah but go with the German or Dutch when it is Bach St Matthew Passion ...

[KevinP]

Anybody old-school enough to have an opinion on Herman Scherchen's?  I have and enjoy his Water Music and Bach Mass in B Minor, so I'm thinking he may be a good fit...

Nearly a year late, but I have it. It's the first one I reach for.

[Cristofori]

Well... this is a most appropriate day (Christmas Eve) for me to make my very first post, which is concerning the great Handel's greatest work, The Messiah!

One of my favorite recordings of this work (and I have many) is Sir Adrian Boult's 1961 London/Decca account with Sutherland, and the LSO. However, the last time I checked the complete version was still not available on CD.

Some of these old school Messiah performances tend to be too lethargic and heavy, and this one is certainly no "period instrument" performance, but is still quite listenable, and a nice change of pace from the plethora of authentic period performances available today.

This version is also interesting in that it uses the solo bass voice in some parts usually reserved for the female alto, and the bass soloist (David Ward) gives a wonderful performance.

I recently picked this up on two still sealed double cassette tapes for .50 cents (lucky me). The sound quality was amazing for a cassette! It had that overall rich, warm, airy sound that these old London recordings were known for. Strings had that crisp sheen, and both solo and choral voices were clear and understandable.

It sounded much better than the old, worn out original LP pressings I used to have. So good in fact, that I almost wouldn't care if the complete version was never released on CD.

I said almost...

[Marc]

[....]
One of my favorite recordings of this work (and I have many) is Sir Adrian Boult's 1961 London/Decca account with Sutherland, and the LSO. However, the last time I checked the complete version was still not available on CD.
Some of these old school Messiah performances tend to be too lethargic and heavy, and this one is certainly no "period instrument" performance, but is still quite listenable, and a nice change of pace from the plethora of authentic period performances available today.
[....]

Ha! One of my first classical LP's. Highlights only though.

I don't really know which one (of the few I have) is my favourite. But I've always liked Colin Davis (first recording), Pinnock, Christie, Hogwood and Ton Koopman. The latter was a 3cd-issue though, with very strange 'dividing policy'. Dunno if it's still available.

Koopman certainly has a touch for Händel IMO, and his soloists are in good shape. The late Marjanne Kweksilber (mainly known for her contributions to modern classical music) is performing very well, as is James Bowman, whose voice I do not always admire. But in this one he's very convincing.
I always loved tenor Paul Elliott's voice in this kind of music. Bass Gregory Reinhart has a good voice, too. Choir (The Sixteen) and Koopman's orchestra are a bonus to this bright performance!

[rubio]

It sounded much better than the old, worn out original LP pressings I used to have. So good in fact, that I almost wouldn't care if the complete version was never released on CD.

I said almost...

It's available on CD here:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=5023&name_role1=1&name_id2=56164&name_role2=3&bcorder=31&comp_id=1257



Or used (and more expensive) here:

http://www.amazon.com/Messiah-Joan-Sutherland/dp/B00000E4VD/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261736483&sr=1-6

[Coopmv]

It's available on CD here:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=5023&name_role1=1&name_id2=56164&name_role2=3&bcorder=31&comp_id=1257



Or used (and more expensive) here:

http://www.amazon.com/Messiah-Joan-Sutherland/dp/B00000E4VD/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1261736483&sr=1-6

I only have the highlight on LP.  What Arkiv has to offer is the CDR's it made inhouse under license from Decca.  Unless Decca decides to re-issue this, it is OOP as far as I am concerned.  I was a onetime customer at Arkiv but will not buy any CDR's.

[Cristofori]

I only have the highlight on LP.  What Arkiv has to offer is the CDR's it made inhouse under license from Decca.  Unless Decca decides to re-issue this, it is OOP as far as I am concerned.  I was a onetime customer at Arkiv but will not buy any CDR's.

Ditto on the CDRs.

Decca did reissue this, but only as a highlights CD on their budget "Eloquence" series. I've thought of getting it, but I'll stick to my guns and wait for a complete version.

[Coopmv]

Ditto on the CDRs.

Decca did reissue this, but only as a highlights CD on their budget "Eloquence" series. I've thought of getting it, but I'll stick to my guns and wait for a complete version.

Highlights of any classical works are for beginners, not serious classical music lovers ...

[Coopmv]

Thanks for the info rubio.

I was aware of Arkivmusic's CDR's, but I didn't know they had done this one. However, I don't consider these to be legitimate copies.

Until this gets a proper reissue, or until I can find near mint used LP or oop CD copies at a decent price, I'll stick with my very good sounding .50 cent cassette tapes.

It may be nostalgia more than anything else.  The highlight on this LP was probably the first Messiah work I ever bought.  But Joan Sutherland and Grace Bumbry are hardly the ideal soloists for Messiah IMO after having owned many excellent recordings that have been made after this ...

[Bulldog]

These ARE legitimate copies. ArkivMusic has the full authorization from all record companies who participate.

But that's just it: sometimes copies of rare material can't be found or are sold at inflated prices on the aftermarket. Arkiv's service is a boon for the hardcore classical collector.

I agree; it's a great service.  However, some folks think there's something phoney or corrupt about it.  I've been acquiring their CDR's for a few years now and never had a problem.

However, I'm a firm proponent of baroque orchestral music on period instruments, so that Decca set holds no interest for me.

[DarkAngel]

And has anybody here heard Frieder Bernius' quite recent Messiah? I generally like this conductor (I've just greatly enjoyed his Bach Christmas Oratorio ), and I also have a sweet spot for Carolyn Sampson.

I also really like Bernius, but he often records for boutique labels that are very expensive and rather hard to find
Would love to pick up this Messiah but not at any price 

[DarkAngel]

Just browsed through this thread, but maybe have missed it.

Anyway: what are the thoughts here on René Jacob's Messiah? 

I really like the Jacobs (love his Mozart operas) version which has very nice box packaging (has trapdoor CD storage area) and great modern sound, but performance wise not quite in the elite catagory for me, competion for the best is great and bar is set extremely high. None of the soloist are truely outstanding or memorable compared to Christie or Pinnock groups for instance.......but regardless the overall result is impressive and I will never be parting with my Jacobs set 

BTW one unusual feature for Jacobs.......he does not use two sopranos, but instead uses soprano, alto (counter tenor, tenor, bass)

[Bulldog]

I really like the Jacobs (love his Mozart operas) version which has very nice box packaging (has trapdoor CD storage area) and great modern sound, but performance wise not quite in the elite catagory for me, competion for the best is great and bar is set extremely high. None of the soloist are truely outstanding or memorable compared to Christie or Pinnock groups for instance.......but regardless the overall result is impressive and I will never be parting with my Jacobs set 

Yes, Jacobs is top-drawer whether it's Mozart, Haydn or Bach.  I do love that Messiah cover - there's nothing like being eye-balled.