J.S. Bach on the Organ

[jlaurson]

Anyone has any comments of this 3 disc sets from André Isoire re released by La
Dolce Volta?

yes, three comments: YUMM. YUMM. YUMM. Love it! The rest is being re-issued as well... his AOF is my favorite on the organ... but these concertos are top notch and not the most commonly heard fare.

[GuybrushThreepwood]

yes, three comments: YUMM. YUMM. YUMM. Love it! The rest is being re-issued as well... his AOF is my favorite on the organ... but these concertos are top notch and not the most commonly heard fare.

Great!!! I have enjoyed the set very much, but I do not have any other experience in Bach organs recordings.

Do you know how many discs are going to be reissued?

[Marc]

Great!!! I have enjoyed the set very much, but I do not have any other experience in Bach organs recordings.

Do you know how many discs are going to be reissued?

Apparently the reissue of his 15cd-box is already officially OOP.



Anyway, I haven't been listening to Isoir's Bach for a long time, since he isn't my favourite, BUT .... yes, the organ arrangements of the concertos BWV 1052, 1053 and 1059 belong to his better recordings IMHO, together with Die Kunst der Fuge (mentioned by Jens) and the 3rd part of the Clavier-Übung (AKA Orgelmesse), played on the magnificent Gabler organ in the Weingarten Basilika. Only the latter piece was part of that 15cd-box btw.

Tastes differ of course, but for a more convincing 'French approach' I would suggest the boxset by Olivier Vernet, who also plays arrangements of the concertos for multiple keyboard instruments, together with a.o. his teacher, the late Marie-Claire Alain.

http://www.amazon.com/LOeuvre-Pour-Orgue-Johann-Sebastian/dp/B0013V9ROA/

[jlaurson]

Great!!! I have enjoyed the set very much, but I do not have any other experience in Bach organs recordings.

Do you know how many discs are going to be reissued?

All of the discs will be re-issued by La Dolce Volta... in multiple sets over the next year. Some of them are already available on Qobuz as downloads and streams.

[Anhang]

Is anyone familiar with an integral set by Karol Golebiowski?  It's on Amazon for download only, in 7 volumes covering 14 discs.  It was recorded around 1990 on Selene Records, and he apparently had an earlier LP-only set.  Other than that, I don't recall any reviews or comments on it.  Is it worth exploring?

[marvinbrown]

  Bach fans I am really excited! Today I was very very fortunate to pick up a used copy, the CDs are in very good condition of this:

  [asin]B0000041KD[/asin]

  I am familiar with Hurford as I have the 2CD Great Organ works of J.S. Bach compilation. This will be my 2nd complete set to complement Ton Koopman's set.

  marvin

[prémont]

Is anyone familiar with an integral set by Karol Golebiowski?  It's on Amazon for download only, in 7 volumes covering 14 discs.  It was recorded around 1990 on Selene Records, and he apparently had an earlier LP-only set.  Other than that, I don't recall any reviews or comments on it.  Is it worth exploring?

Never heard of him. Polish recordings have always been difficult to get hold of in my country.
I see that he is a pupil of Joachim Grubich and Lionel Rogg, two great names, and that his set is available at Selene´s homepage.  Hmmmm...

[Drosera]

Reserved quality is not the worst thing in the interpretation of Bachs organ music. I have acquired all nine volumes of his (ongoing?) cycle, and do not regret.

Welcome to the forum. Hope you will enjoy.

Thanks for the welcome! You're probably right that a reserved quality is probably not a bad thing in these works. In fact, the choice of instruments alone might be enough to persuade me. I'm starting to notice that I'm quite sensitive to instruments used. For example, I already seem to have a preference for Alain III over Alain II. Her playing might be slightly more involving in her second cycle, but I really dislike those neo-baroque organs.

[marvinbrown]

  I have been listening to the first 2 CDs from this set and the first thing that struck me was the clarity of the harmonic lines, when compared to the embellished Koompan set (Teldec).  Hurford makes the organ "SING" with all its glory.  One amazon.com reviewer points to the "airiness" of this recording.  The music breathes and has a life of it own and is very pleasant on the ears. I really like this:

  [asin]B0000041KD[/asin]

  marvin

[prémont]

..... I already seem to have a preference for Alain III over Alain II. Her playing might be slightly more involving in her second cycle, but I really dislike those neo-baroque organs.

I have to say, that I am more and more feeling in a similar way. What particularly annoys me, is the equal tuning of many of these neobaroque organs, adding an unwanted metallic quality to the sound..   

[Anhang]

Never heard of him. Polish recordings have always been difficult to get hold of in my country.
I see that he is a pupil of Joachim Grubich and Lionel Rogg, two great names, and that his set is available at Selene´s homepage.  Hmmmm...

If I try to "add to cart" on any of the Golebiowski discs on Selene's site, it responds that my shopping cart is empty.  I also can't find any trace of the actual CDs on Ebay, the various Amazon sites and my usual European merchants.  I think it's all very much oop, at least in physical form.

I purchased the volume 3 on mp3, with the toccatas & fugues, and gave the F major a try.  I very much enjoyed the toccata, and was doing fine with the fugue until 44 seconds in, when there was a horrible static noise that startled the out of me.  Fortunately, I didn't have a beverage in hand or I would have lost it.  You can hear it in the sound bite on Amazon's site as well.  I sent a note to Selene about it, but I'll be surprised if I get a reply.

I think Golebiowski is worth listening to, but at reduced volume and without any sharp instruments in hand.

[prémont]

If I try to "add to cart" on any of the Golebiowski discs on Selene's site, it responds that my shopping cart is empty.  I also can't find any trace of the actual CDs on Ebay, the various Amazon sites and my usual European merchants.  I think it's all very much oop, at least in physical form.

Seems as if you must order by email

Orders can be placed via the company's website www.selenemusic.com, in exceptional cases, by phone +48 (22) 4460539 or +48 506182220.
After placing his/her order the customer receives an e-mail message confirming its receipt.

Having listened to some of the short clips on amazon, I do not find him that exciting.

[kishnevi]

Thanks for the welcome! You're probably right that a reserved quality is probably not a bad thing in these works. In fact, the choice of instruments alone might be enough to persuade me. I'm starting to notice that I'm quite sensitive to instruments used. For example, I already seem to have a preference for Alain III over Alain II. Her playing might be slightly more involving in her second cycle, but I really dislike those neo-baroque organs.

My fault with Alain II (must note I have not heard a note of Alain III) lay in the feeling that for much of the chorales I had the feeling she was doing a chore--uninvolved, in fact.  Well, the contract says the complete organ works and I must complete the contract.   I must confess that I'm simply not enough into organs to find their neobaroqueness a negative characteristic.  For that matter, what the deuce is a neobaroque organ, exactly?  The term suggests more than one thing to me, and I would appreciate a bit of clarity.

[jlaurson]

Speaking of Olivier Vernet (somebody is bound to have been speaking of him at some point, in this thread): I'll hear him tonight. Alas, in a French program, not in Bach. Saw him briefly last night, doing the registration work at 11pm, all alone in the large concert hall. Kind of a bummer job, getting only the way-early and way-late time slots in any Konzerthaus to do your prep-work.

[marvinbrown]

  Bach organ fans, I need your help please......so far I have 2 sets of Bach Organ works: Ton Koopman on Teldec and the recently acquired Peter Hurford set on London.  Both sets differ from one another and I am now very interested in hearing your views on the organ works played on historical instruments. Is the sound radically and distinguishably different from modern organs? To be honest I tend to prefer the "airiness" of the Hurford set to the Ton Koopman set. I am wondering if an HIP would have more of this airy quality? In particular I have been listening to samples of the Weinberger set but because the samples are so short and through my less than impressive laptop speakers it is difficult for me to make an informed decision.

  Any advice you might have or insights would be greatly appreciated.

  PS: I'd like to get my hands on a 3rd set of Bach organ works 

  marvin 

[jlaurson]

  Bach organ fans, I need your help please......so far I have 2 sets of Bach Organ works: Ton Koopman on Teldec and the recently acquired Peter Hurford set on London.  Both sets differ from one another and I am now very interested in hearing your views on the organ works played on historical instruments. Is the sound radically and distinguishably different from modern organs? To be honest I tend to prefer the "airiness" of the Hurford set to the Ton Koopman set. I am wondering if an HIP would have more of this airy quality? In particular I have been listening to samples of the Weinberger set but because the samples are so short and through my less than impressive laptop speakers it is difficult for me to make an informed decision.

  Any advice you might have or insights would be greatly appreciated.

  PS: I'd like to get my hands on a 3rd set of Bach organ works 

  marvin

Yes, the sound is radically and distinguishably different from modern organs... but so are, often, organs from different makers or restored organs from older (i.e. recorded in so-so restorated condition) instruments.... and then it's a matter of maker. French / Swiss / West German (Andreas) Silbermann organs, although from the correct time period, sound quite different than East / North German (Gottfried) Silbermann organs. The latter were only partly available during the communist regime curtaining itself off from the West.

I'm not sure how much I can determine from what you write whether that's definitely the step you're looking for, as far as you sound ideal is concerned. But what is true is that most historical instruments have a lightness and absence of all bombast... often you can hear the mechanics... the sound tends to be less metallic and more reedy (although that's a gross simplification that might make most organ lovers howl in exasperation).

Here's an overview of Bach Organ Cycles from which you can pick your third cycle: A Survey of Bach Organ Cycles which might be helpful.
On MousOver on the picture for some of the cycles, you'll find a list with the organs used.

The ones that would seem to be natural and easily-enough attainable choices, if you pursue the 'authentic instrument' route are:

Gerhard Weinberger
Marie-Claire Alain III
Silbermann Cycle on Berlin Classics

Of those, I'd probably chose MCAIII first, have an emotional soft spot for the Silbermann cycle (old fashioned and sound a bit iffy here and there), and wouldn't want to miss Weinberger because of its vigorous completeness.

[prémont]

In practice I agree with most of what Jens writes. Like him I would tend to prefer Alain III. But there are two more sets to be considered:

Bernard Foccroulle (Ricercare), very introvert interpretation, but a number of important historical organs (Arp Schnitger, Holzhey among others)

and

the set (Aeolus) by the late Ewald Kooiman and pupils, also noteworthy for its use of a number of important historical organs (mainly Andreas Silbermann school).

[jlaurson]

In practice I agree with most of what Jens writes. Like him I would tend to prefer Alain III. But there are two more sets to be considered:

Bernard Foccroulle (Ricercare), very introvert interpretation, but a number of important historical organs (Arp Schnitger, Holzhey among others)

and

the set (Aeolus) by the late Ewald Kooiman and pupils, also noteworthy for its use of a number of important historical organs (mainly Andreas Silbermann school).

Right... I've not heard all (or even most) of the Kooiman & Pupils set (making my way through it on Qobuz); ditto Bernard Foccroulle. I've kept it narrowly to Gottfried Silbermann surveys... but even as I say it I realize I don't know off the top of my head which instruments Alain actually plays on that set. But those that she was not able to get to when recording cycle No.2, which was the rationale for recording the whole shabang a third time.

[milk]

You have to distinguish between the two Silbermann brothers, Gottfried and Andreas.

Gottfried Silbermann´s organs are very much cast in Middle-German baroque style and according to some well suited for the execution of Bach´s later organ works - along with organs by Trost and Hildebrandt. For Bach´s more youthful works composed at a time when he was stylistically influenced by Buxtehude and Reincken among others, the North-German organ type of Arp Schnitger may be better suited.

Andreas Silbermann and his son Johan Andreas Silberman built organs very much in French baroque organ style, and this is a kind of sound ideal, which may be more questionable in relation to Bach´s organ works. The organs have got a spendid sound, and I do not think Bach would have minded his works played on them. It is just that the Schnitger and Gottfried Silbermann organs sound more idiomatic.

I wanted to bump this post because I found it so interesting and helpful. I really like the sound of the G.S. organs on the Berlin set even though they're not my "go-to" recordings. I thought I read somewhere that they weren't necessarily properly restored at the time of the recordings. The Foccroulle set has a wonderful variety of instruments. It's a real journey instrument-wise (Schott is another name I notice in addition to GS and the others mentioned). I've been meaning to find some kind of coffee table book on organs...

[marvinbrown]

Yes, the sound is radically and distinguishably different from modern organs... but so are, often, organs from different makers or restored organs from older (i.e. recorded in so-so restorated condition) instruments.... and then it's a matter of maker. French / Swiss / West German (Andreas) Silbermann organs, although from the correct time period, sound quite different than East / North German (Gottfried) Silbermann organs. The latter were only partly available during the communist regime curtaining itself off from the West.

I'm not sure how much I can determine from what you write whether that's definitely the step you're looking for, as far as you sound ideal is concerned. But what is true is that most historical instruments have a lightness and absence of all bombast... often you can hear the mechanics... the sound tends to be less metallic and more reedy (although that's a gross simplification that might make most organ lovers howl in exasperation).

Here's an overview of Bach Organ Cycles from which you can pick your third cycle: A Survey of Bach Organ Cycles which might be helpful.
On MousOver on the picture for some of the cycles, you'll find a list with the organs used.

The ones that would seem to be natural and easily-enough attainable choices, if you pursue the 'authentic instrument' route are:

Gerhard Weinberger
Marie-Claire Alain III
Silbermann Cycle on Berlin Classics

Of those, I'd probably chose MCAIII first, have an emotional soft spot for the Silbermann cycle (old fashioned and sound a bit iffy here and there), and wouldn't want to miss Weinberger because of its vigorous completeness.

  Thank you so much jlaurson  for this very informative post and the link you provide is very helpful. What you have written in bold above is exactly the sound that I desire most for my 3rd set. I shall look into your suggestions.

  marvin