Author Topic: J.S. Bach on the Organ  (Read 514633 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3160 on: March 18, 2020, 01:45:20 AM »


Any thoughts on Hubert Meister? I remember hearing it before and liking it, but I just listened to sound samples online again and was actually quite disappointed.

A sort of sweep forward to the music sometimes, as if he's bitten it all it off in one go, he reminds me of Walter Gieseking in that respect -- in Scarbo.

Am I right to think 525-7 are at Frosshartmannsdorf and the other three are at Forchheim?

(Been listening to both Stockmeier and Beekman, both of whom seem really special to me!)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 01:52:29 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3161 on: March 19, 2020, 04:13:24 AM »
Am I right to think 525-7 are at Frosshartmannsdorf and the other three are at Forchheim?

According to the booklet sonatas 1, 2 ,5 and 6 are recorded at Grosshartmansdorf and
sonatas 3 and 4 at Forchheim.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3162 on: March 19, 2020, 05:30:05 AM »
According to the booklet sonatas 1, 2 ,5 and 6 are recorded at Grosshartmansdorf and
sonatas 3 and 4 at Forchheim.

Thanks - both fine organs in different ways. The recording is a nice one to own.


 I just found this on Qobuz, it contains another performance of BWV 529 and some chorales. The organ sounds pure, I bet it’s not very old, I can’t find any details,  there’s some info about it here. Nice performance but no match for Grosshartmansdorf.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Meister

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Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3163 on: March 22, 2020, 02:51:11 PM »
@Mandryka, you once recommended this box set to me:



It's Ton Koopman playing Bach works on various organs. Well, it's been a few months now and I'm just finally coming around on organ music enough to the point where I think I would actually find value in such a set. Do you stand by your recommendation? I like what little I've heard of the music here and it's going for cheaply enough anyway. Or do you think there is a better option out there? I have also been considering Helmut Walcha's box, which I understand is on the other end of the spectrum...?

I just pulled out volume 6 of this set and gave it a spin. (BWV 547, some CU III chorales, Trio sonata 3 BWV 527, BWV 533, BWV 662, BWV 548 "wedge")
Well, I've mentioned the exceptionally reedy and speedy (at least the prelude) BWV 547 here before, but I've forgotten how good the rest of the playing is. The grand preludes and fugues, which often receive more attention than chorale-based works, are naturally played very fast, but somehow, the organ and acoustic takes it well.

The organ here is the one in the Den Bosch ('s-Hertogenbosch) Janskerk, a classic 17th century Dutch city organ rebuilt in the 18th century in Southern Dutch rococo style, then heavily restored by Flentrop in the 80's. A bit of a typical Dutch "Jack of all trades" instrument now with quite the French accent, handles romantic music very nicely too.
It sounds the best here, I like the sound better than Beekman's recordings on it (Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrmlyK8lFQ), which seems a bit sterile.

Often times, Koopman's playing can be a little "rigid" when fast, but definitely not in this recording. He uses much more little agogics in this recording compared to his later ones, softening up while preserving the breathless forward momentum of his playing - I like BWV 548 and his trio sonata much more than on his later set for this reason. Here's an example of a "big organ" trio sonata done well, a good mixture of intimacy and grandeur.
I also like his use of echoes in the BWV 533 fugue.

Koopman plays the chorales in a careful, broad, contemplative manner - again, he's more "on it" here than on Freiburg Silbermann, the way he slowly opens the organ up starting from a single flute in BWV 669 and ending with something short of full organ on BWV 671 is most alluring.

While I do tend to like the Schnitger instruments (used in the later set) more, I do like the fiery, nasal, reed-soaked plenum of the Den Bosch organ, along with the multitudes of soft rococo colors in the trio sonatas and chorales.

Anyways, I think this is one of Koopman's best single Bach recordings.

In general, I think this 6-disc set is either Koopman's best (the one at Ottobeuren with the Passacaliaga, Weingarten, this one), not as good as his later integrale (recordings on Muller organs), or completely forgettable (Maasluis)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 02:57:47 PM by bioluminescentsquid »

Offline bioluminescentsquid

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3164 on: March 22, 2020, 03:04:41 PM »
Also, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this Weinberger recording here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nAsyUTn2Xer8tDI5om75BbXhHkWtt98hU

The Bach on it is very good! I would describe the playing as straightforward and muscular, the meantone tuning of the organ adds to the charm.
Reminds me that I do have to give his integrale another chance.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3165 on: March 23, 2020, 12:43:47 AM »
I just pulled out volume 6 of this set and gave it a spin. (BWV 547, some CU III chorales, Trio sonata 3 BWV 527, BWV 533, BWV 662, BWV 548 "wedge")
Well, I've mentioned the exceptionally reedy and speedy (at least the prelude) BWV 547 here before, but I've forgotten how good the rest of the playing is. The grand preludes and fugues, which often receive more attention than chorale-based works, are naturally played very fast, but somehow, the organ and acoustic takes it well.

The organ here is the one in the Den Bosch ('s-Hertogenbosch) Janskerk, a classic 17th century Dutch city organ rebuilt in the 18th century in Southern Dutch rococo style, then heavily restored by Flentrop in the 80's. A bit of a typical Dutch "Jack of all trades" instrument now with quite the French accent, handles romantic music very nicely too.
It sounds the best here, I like the sound better than Beekman's recordings on it (Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrmlyK8lFQ), which seems a bit sterile.

Often times, Koopman's playing can be a little "rigid" when fast, but definitely not in this recording. He uses much more little agogics in this recording compared to his later ones, softening up while preserving the breathless forward momentum of his playing - I like BWV 548 and his trio sonata much more than on his later set for this reason. Here's an example of a "big organ" trio sonata done well, a good mixture of intimacy and grandeur.
I also like his use of echoes in the BWV 533 fugue.

Koopman plays the chorales in a careful, broad, contemplative manner - again, he's more "on it" here than on Freiburg Silbermann, the way he slowly opens the organ up starting from a single flute in BWV 669 and ending with something short of full organ on BWV 671 is most alluring.

While I do tend to like the Schnitger instruments (used in the later set) more, I do like the fiery, nasal, reed-soaked plenum of the Den Bosch organ, along with the multitudes of soft rococo colors in the trio sonatas and chorales.

Anyways, I think this is one of Koopman's best single Bach recordings.

In general, I think this 6-disc set is either Koopman's best (the one at Ottobeuren with the Passacaliaga, Weingarten, this one), not as good as his later integrale (recordings on Muller organs), or completely forgettable (Maasluis)

It’s nice to be reminded of this one, after a panic at least, because I’d incorrectly tagged it so it was a bugger to find. I know it of old because, years ago, I decided to explore CU3 in depth and I was really impressed by Koopman’s playing of the first three chorales. At the time, those chorales were hard for me because they seemed sombre and heavy. But Koopman lightens them up, no doubt helped by the reedy organ. Great thing to rediscover this morning. I still like the way he plays those chorales a lot.

Those Novalis recordings come from the 1980s, a time when, in my milieu, rebellious teenagers used to get high on amphetamines in clubs. Listening to his extraordinary 547 prelude made me think of this.

I was once in Holland and I met someone who was a great friend of Koopman. This chap came from the far and distant north of Holland, and he was passionate about early music in that Dutch way we’re all very familiar with. Anyway he said he had met Ton Koopman in Amsterdam years ago and told him that he was trying to get music education and therapy and concerts going in his little town in the north and Koopman immediately volunteered to help. He would travel up , give recitals, master classes, concerts etc. All gratis and all with great charm .


Re Massluis I’m inclined to agree with you except for one thing - Aus tiefer not - my least favourite bit of CU3 in fact. But I think that what Koopman does is not bad - serious without being severe, weighty without being heavy.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 01:01:15 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Marc

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3166 on: March 23, 2020, 09:04:41 AM »
[…]

I was once in Holland and I met someone who was a great friend of Koopman. This chap came from the far and distant north of Holland, and he was passionate about early music in that Dutch way we’re all very familiar with. Anyway he said he had met Ton Koopman in Amsterdam years ago and told him that he was trying to get music education and therapy and concerts going in his little town in the north and Koopman immediately volunteered to help. He would travel up , give recitals, master classes, concerts etc. All gratis and all with great charm.

When the little Schnitger in Mensingeweer (small village in Groningen province, NL) was restored, Koopman came and gave a concert for free, too.
I thought it was a pity though that he, during his opening speech, began complaining (again) about other scholars, especially German, who disagreed with his vision on Bach. You could feel that the majority of the audience did not come to hear that.

I also recall him visiting a pub after a concert and, together with a few other concertgoers, we waved at him cheerfully and he cheerfully waved back with a big smile.

Re Massluis I’m inclined to agree with you except for one thing - Aus tiefer not - my least favourite bit of CU3 in fact. But I think that what Koopman does is not bad - serious without being severe, weighty without being heavy.

Yes, I remember your 'dislike' of BWV 686. I do apologize… it's still my favourite chorale of CU3 ;). I can listen to that piece even 3 or 4 times in a row.
Like you, I think that Koopman's performance on the Maassluis Novalis/Brilliant disc is quite good. And I'm also happy with his performances of the small (Krebs?) Preludes & Fugues BWV 553-560. Very enjoyable. The same goes for the Trio Sonata in E Flat, BWV 525. The only small problem I have with this issue is the recording sound, which is a bit too dim. When I listen to this disc, I always give the 'treble' rotary button on my ole fashioned receiver a big 'hit' to brighten up and sharpen the sound.
Turning up the volume helps, too. Yeah.
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Offline Traverso

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3167 on: April 02, 2020, 07:34:14 AM »




There is good news for organ aficionados,in time there will be a new edition of the Bach / Beekman recordings.




Piet Lindenberg is working on a reissue of the integral recording of Bach's organ oeuvre by the recently deceased organist Bram Beekman.

That reports The Organ Friend in the latest issue. Between 1990 and 1996, Beekman recorded for the LBCD van Lindenberg label all organ works by Bach, played on fourteen historical organs, on nine double CDs. The series has been sold out for years.

Piet Lindenberg has now planned to re-release the entire series in a collection box with textbook, possibly in combination with Beekman's recording of the complete organ oeuvre by César Franck. The cost of the collection box, which should be released next year, will be less than 100 euros.

Interested parties can report to the publisher via pietlindenberg@solcon.nl.


Because other activities took a long time from 2003 onwards, LBCD production almost came to a halt. In 2008 the curtain fell on the store in Rotterdam; a third party at that time managed to improperly annex the LBCD stock. Everything appeared to have ended up in the ram before appropriate measures could be taken. However, the rights and production materials are still owned by Lindenberg Productions BV and owner Piet Lindenberg has decided to revive the label again in 2019. In the older generations, mentioning LBCD is still a direct indication of recognition. There is therefore every reason to continue in the same way (quality and information) and also to introduce the new generation (s) to the label. In addition, the new possibilities of making earlier productions available through streaming are also being examined.

https://www.lindenbergproductions.nl/over-ons/

https://www.rd.nl/muziek/heruitgave-bachintegrale-organist-bram-beekman-1.549733


Offline "Harry"

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Re: J.S. Bach on the Organ
« Reply #3168 on: April 02, 2020, 07:58:08 AM »



There is good news for organ aficionados,in time there will be a new edition of the Bach / Beekman recordings.




Piet Lindenberg is working on a reissue of the integral recording of Bach's organ oeuvre by the recently deceased organist Bram Beekman.

That reports The Organ Friend in the latest issue. Between 1990 and 1996, Beekman recorded for the LBCD van Lindenberg label all organ works by Bach, played on fourteen historical organs, on nine double CDs. The series has been sold out for years.

Piet Lindenberg has now planned to re-release the entire series in a collection box with textbook, possibly in combination with Beekman's recording of the complete organ oeuvre by César Franck. The cost of the collection box, which should be released next year, will be less than 100 euros.

Interested parties can report to the publisher via pietlindenberg@solcon.nl.


Email send, told them I am game for this box.
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