What are you currently reading?

[Florestan]

I felt more sympathy for him than that hypocrite Alyosha.

In what way(s) is Alyosha a hypocrite?

[AlberichUndHagen]

His fundamentalism drives me nuts! He gets mad at Ivan for trying to express his atheism in his Grand Inquisitor poem while still the narrator is constantly trying to uphold his (fake) image of not judging anyone. Also, like Ivan and Dmitri, he never acknowledges Smerdyakov as his brother because he is illegitimate yet he never stops thinking about Fyodor, arguably the most horrible character in the book, as his father, meaning that Alyosha's for the incredibly old-fashioned "bastards are not family" type of hypocritical mentality yet the fathers who rape people and act horrendously are family? I'm not arguing Smerdyakov hasn't done anything bad, I am arguing that Fyodor was worse, as one character in fact in Dmitri's trial very soundly argues Fyodor of having renounced all his duties as a father, even mocked them. And as a cherry on the top, there is his heinous rape of a mentally disabled character who actually happens to be Smerdyakov's mother. I don't remember if it is outright stated if Smerdyakov knew about Fyodor's rape of his mother but considering it appears to be public knowledge in the town I think he does.

I've also studied Dostoevsky's religious views in his Writer's Diary which included his enthusiastic support of murdering Turks, the so called "infidels". Dostoevsky represents the absolute worst aspects of Christianity and he never loses an opportunity to express his obsession in his books. I still like Dostyevsky as a writer but I mostly like from his characters those who express atheism as opposed to faith. His Christian characters are often either incredibly bland or outright annoying.

FWIW, I am an agnostic atheist.

[SimonNZ]

I'm going to have to go out and get a copy of Remains Of The Day.

currently:



Superbly and succinctly written and argued collection of short pieces (4-6 pages) articles from The Guardian. I'll be finding and reading the rest of his full-length books in the near future.

It occurs to me that its been a while since I read a hard-left author who didn't just sound like the boilerplate easily caricatured image of the hard-left but was a strikingly original voice., and precise and focused rather than broad and sweeping.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

FWIW, I am an agnostic atheist.

Me too.

[Brian]

FWIW, I am an agnostic atheist.

Same, and I very much enjoyed Brothers Karamazov at age 17 but very much did not enjoy it at 27, when all the philosophical discussions amongst the characters seemed to be unfairly weighted or "rigged." Also, I changed translations - MacAndrew at 17 and the much disliked Pevear & Volokhonsky at 27; perhaps that was part of the problem. On second reading the debates and politics of the book seemed much less subtle and more artificial or staged.

[SimonNZ]

Same, and I very much enjoyed Brothers Karamazov at age 17 but very much did not enjoy it at 27, when all the philosophical discussions amongst the characters seemed to be unfairly weighted or "rigged." Also, I changed translations - MacAndrew at 17 and the much disliked Pevear & Volokhonsky at 27; perhaps that was part of the problem. On second reading the debates and politics of the book seemed much less subtle and more artificial or staged.

You didn't like the translation, or are you saying its widely disliked?

I've read it twice, but both times the Constance Garnett translation. I'd like to do a third in another version.

[vers la flamme]

I've never read The Brothers Karamazov but the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation has been sitting on my bookshelf for about a year. I did not know it was "much disliked"; rather, I thought it was supposed to be "the one to get". Anyway, I read their translation of Crime and Punishment several times and loved it each time. Ditto for Notes from Underground.

Yesterday I started yet another Ishiguro: A Pale View of Hills, his first novel. So far, so good.

[vers la flamme]

I just found a book I've been seeking out for some time, at one of those "take a book, leave a book" outposts right around the block from my apartment:



What luck! So I reckon I might read this next. I've been dying to read Mishima for a couple of months now.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I just found a book I've been seeking out for some time, at one of those "take a book, leave a book" outposts right around the block from my apartment:



What luck! So I reckon I might read this next. I've been dying to read Mishima for a couple of months now.

Excellent work. Pinnacle of Mishima's aestheticism. One of David Bowie's favorite books. The original title of the book is A Ship Towing in the Afternoon.  The story is disturbing to many/most readers, but all readers would recognize Mishima's genius in the work.

The movie is a strangely attractive film as well.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I agree, good as the film is, it doesn't approach the intimacy created by the book's extraordinary prose, which for me is on another level.

I've read three other Ishiguro books, The Unconsoled, Never Let Me Go and When We Were Orphans. The Unconsoled is a rare and unforgettable novel, one of my favourites. Never Let Me Go is as usual brilliantly written, though I found it somewhat depressing and harrowing at times. And When We Were Orphans I found somewhat confusing and the least engaging.

For all of these, it's well over a decade since I read them last, but the first two certainly, have left very vivid impressions.

Thank you for the helpful reviews. I need to get The Unconsoled.

[Brian]

You didn't like the translation, or are you saying its widely disliked?

I've read it twice, but both times the Constance Garnett translation. I'd like to do a third in another version.

I've never read The Brothers Karamazov but the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation has been sitting on my bookshelf for about a year. I did not know it was "much disliked"; rather, I thought it was supposed to be "the one to get". Anyway, I read their translation of Crime and Punishment several times and loved it each time. Ditto for Notes from Underground.

Yesterday I started yet another Ishiguro: A Pale View of Hills, his first novel. So far, so good.

"Controversial" probably would have been a better word choice. P&V are much-liked by some and disliked by others. The reason is their unusual translation style - Volokhonsky translates the text literally, and then Pevear goes through and tweaks the phrases and word choices to be more colloquial and authentic sounding in English. They've been criticized for often missing the bigger picture on some of the authors' jokes or political/religious double meanings. The upside of their work is that they do not "fix" long, crazy sentence structures (Garnett did this) or try to smooth out the stranger word/grammar choices some of the Russians made. The downside is, basically, a sort of miss-the-forest-for-the-trees critique.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I wonder if there are a few Russian members and they can provide thoughts/insights about the non-Russian editions of Russian literature. My gut feeling is that about 70 percent of the text could be translated to non-Slavic language accurately and aesthetically.

Big fan of Dostoyevsky, but I don't personally consider the Karamazov his successful work.

[Florestan]

I actually think renouncing one's faith, whatever it happens to be, is justified in all circumstances.

I'm sure you have faith in democracy. Should your country become a dictatorship (God forbid!) and should the government require that you pledged absolute obedience to them or else, what would you do?

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I'm sure you have faith in democracy. Should your country become a dictatorship (God forbid!) and should the government require that you pledged absolute obedience to them or else, what would you do?

Your connection of religious freedom and (representative) democracy could be fragile at best, theoretically and empirically (historically). Look at how Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists are treated in democratic nations today. The religious minorities in Byzantine empire (and others) were treated much better.

This is a book, not sociology, thread, but I couldn't resist. Sorry.

[JBS]

Your connection of religious freedom and (representative) democracy could be fragile at best, theoretically and empirically (historically). Look at how Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists are treated in democratic nations today. The religious minorities in Byzantine empire (and others) were treated much better.

This is a book, not sociology, thread, but I couldn't resist. Sorry.

Speaking as a member of a religious minority whose history includes persecution
by the Byzantines:  they were not treated better
.

It is often claimed that the Byzantine persecution of Monophysites in Egypt and Syria was one reason the Arab conquest of those countries was so successful.

[JBS]

I'm sure you have faith in democracy. Should your country become a dictatorship (God forbid!) and should the government require that you pledged absolute obedience to them or else, what would you do?

Perhaps a better equivalent in Alberich's case would be science and reasoned inquiry: if a persecution demanded he abandon belief in those things, would he do it to save his own life? To save the lives of others? Would he even be able to do it, given how fundamental those things are to his worldview?

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Perhaps a better equivalent in Alberich's case would be science and reasoned inquiry: if a persecution demanded he abandon belief in those things, would he do it to save his own life? To save the lives of others? Would he even be able to do it, given how fundamental those things are to his worldview?

Wonderful idea. Somebody should write a book based on that theme.

[Jo498]

Wonderful idea. Somebody should write a book based on that theme.

This book was written a long time ago: How many fingers are there, Winston?

[Jo498]

I wonder if there are a few Russian members and they can provide thoughts/insights about the non-Russian editions of Russian literature. My gut feeling is that about 70 percent of the text could be translated to non-Slavic language accurately and aesthetically.

Do you think that Slavic languages (into say English, French, German...) pose a particular translation problem? I have a very superficial (like one intro class, very far from reading any literature) knowledge of Russian and I am not sure if this is the case. Admittedly, German may be closer in some respects to Russian than English is and there was a lot of cultural influence and immigrants to Russia in the 18th and 19th century as well as many bilingual speakers in the Baltic states and elsewhere so we might have had better translations early on. But there was a huge fuzz in Germany about then (1990s) new Dostoevsky translations by Svetlana Geier who were hailed (usually by people without knowledge of Russian) as very much superior to the ones from the 1920s. (Interestingly, some people who did read Russian felt rather different and saw no clear advantage of the newer translations.) I read Crime and Punishment in that new translation and never got what the fuzz was about. Sure, it encompassed a broader range of language to differentiate between e.g. lower class characters. But overall it was not a hugely different experience and there were also aspects I found stilted in that translation.

Big fan of Dostoyevsky, but I don't personally consider the Karamazov his successful work.

It is a bit too sprawling (and there was a second volume planned with Alyosha leaving the monastery and town, probably some Entwicklungsroman) and the random collections of the "teachings of Zosima" are boring. But it is nevertheless great. (It's been 20 years since I last read more than a bit of FMD but I read several of the big novels twice and the most brilliant overall is probably "The Idiot")

I don't really get the criticism of the religious themes. FMD was an orthodox reactionary in other writings but I know of no atheist critique as subtle and deep as the one he let's Ivan express (not only in the Grand Inquisitor fable).
(I have seen this also expressed in secondary literature, that Ivan "wins" intellectually and Alyosha and the random teachings of Zosima can hardly balance the brilliance of the Inquisitor story etc. It seems that the suggested answer is practical, Ivan is miserable but Alyosha is quite happy and hopefully will remain so despite not becoming a monk)

In hindsight, I don't know if FMD was correct in his reactionary orthodoxy, but he was very insightful in the "dialectics" of liberalism described in "The demons", long before Adorno and others and long before the real horrors of 20th century totalitarianism. And many aspects seem to play out now very similarly again in the last 60 years (hopefully remaining mostly on the farcical level with a lower body count). What were liberal just causes in the 60s have sped partly out of control and have become dysfunctional madness, including lots of illiberal control.

[Artem]

I know nothing about intricacies of literature translation (I'm sure its very laborious process), but as a Russian language speaker I always found Dostoevsky's prose very straightforward and approachable. I have no idea why his work would be difficult to translate, other than the confusion of names that many first time readers of Russian literature usually refer to.

Yesterday I finished . Every year I make an effort to check out Booker's selection and always find them disappointing. This book was also not to my liking.