Recommendations for Bruckner's 8th symphony

[alkan]

My search revealed just scattered bits and pieces, so here goes.

What are your recommendations for the most overwhelming account ever recorded of Bruckner's 8th symphony .... in good quality sound.
And what are the reasons for your choice?

I have a vinyl copy of the Karajan BPO version which I like very much (the same for Karajan's version of the Bruckner's 9th).      But I'm looking to buy a CD to fill this major gap in my collection.

Thanks in advance

[val]

My first choice would be Jochum with the BPO. The sound is very good. Jochum has the sense of greatness of this music and the orchestra is remarkable. But most of all he gives better than any other conductor the deep spirituality of the Adagio, to me one of the most sublime moments in all music.

Eduard van Beinum would be my second choice. The sound is not so good, but the Concertgebow Orchestra is splendid. Beinum has an approach much more dramatic and the last movement shows an extraordinary energy and dynamic, but also a perfect balance.

Furtwängler with the VPO is good, powerful, but the phrasing in the Adagio has not the mystic beauty of Jochum. Sometimes his tendency to change the tempo can be a little disturbing.

Wand with the Hamburg Orchestra has moments of magic beauty, but the interpretation is too slow and has not the same cohesion of Jochum or Beinum.

Barenboim also recorded a beautiful version with the Chicago Orchestra, but less impressive and personal.

[alkan]

Thanks Val,

Out of interest, you don't mention Karajan   (neither the BPO nor VPO versions).

Don't you like them, or have you not heard them ?

Thanks ..... Alkan

[Keemun]

I don't know if they're the most overwhelming accounts ever recorded, but Celibidache/Munich and Boulez/VPO top my list.   

[Moldyoldie]

Haas edition:
Boulez/VPO/DG
Haitink/VPO/Philips

Nowak edition:
Jochum/BPO/DG or Jochum/SD/EMI
Maazel/BPO/Seraphim

These "sold" me on first listen, whereas the likes of the last Karajan, Furtwängler, Knappertsbusch, Lopez-Cobos, Tennstedt, et al. did  not.

[alkan]

Which version of the score is preferable ?

Thks .... Alkan

[Moldyoldie]

Which version of the score is preferable ?

Considering the length of the work and the relatively minor differences, it's my opinion that in the case of the Eighth, there's very little to choose between the two.  Others may disagree.

[O Delvig]

Giulini/VPO! Overwhelming just starts to describe it.

[FredT]

I have a number of Bruckner 8ths of which my favorite's are Horenstein-Pro Musica Orch on Vox and Knappertsbusch-VPO on Memories. Kna's, especially, is absolutely breathtaking for it's sense of structure; Say what you will about Kna's often sloppy legacy but the architecture here is perfectly understood and the players give him exactly what he requires. Indispensible!

[BorisG]

1st choice, Jochum (DG). 2nd, Boulez (DG).

[bhodges]

There are far too many excellent choices for this one.  I have probably a dozen recordings, but these are my current faves:

Boulez/Vienna - What a surprise this was, since on paper it wouldn't appear to be his cup of tea, but it's superb: Boulez's drive for clarity works amazingly well here.
Chailly/Concertgebouw - Slightly faster than some, gleaming performance and recording.
Giulini/Vienna - Just got this recently and already I can tell it will be a favorite, for its warmth and spirituality. (It's hard to find but worth seeking out.)
Karajan/Vienna - Hard to argue with such intense musicmaking...

--Bruce

[rubio]

My faves are Jochum (BPO) for his sense of architecture, forward thrust and beautiful adagio. I find it better balanced than his reading with the SD (where the brass grabs a lot of attention), but the SD is also very good.

Then Bohm/WP, which is more grand and laidback than Jochum, is also top-notch. Bohm keeps the momentum and flow throughout the movements, and the WP is great.



And for vitality and intensity the Schuricht/WP is glorious.



Karajan/VPO I also find great, even if not as towering as his 7th with the same orchestra. I clearly prefer all the above choices for the 8th.

[Tyson]

3rd the Guilini rec.

[Haffner]

Karajan/Vienna - Hard to argue with such intense musicmaking...

--Bruce

Can't wait for the DVD!

[Renfield]

There are far too many excellent choices for this one. [...]

Boulez/Vienna - What a surprise this was, since on paper it wouldn't appear to be his cup of tea, but it's superb: Boulez's drive for clarity works amazingly well here.

[...]

Giulini/Vienna - Just got this recently and already I can tell it will be a favorite, for its warmth and spirituality. (It's hard to find but worth seeking out.)

Karajan/Vienna - Hard to argue with such intense musicmaking... [my emphasis]

Apologies to Bruce for butchering his post like this, but I find his wording as apt as any I might come up with, right now!


Karajan/VPO first and foremost, for me, and entirely unsurpassed - particularly for the "overwhelming" factor.


I also greatly enjoy Karajan's EMI recording with the Berlin Philharmonic (not sure if it's the one you have), and would add Wand's Berlin Philharmonic version to the list of those "top" overwhelming Bruckner 8ths (again, EMI).

Celibidache I don't mention because I'm not sure if he offers the "overwhelming" you want, but it is otherwise my second choice after the VPO Karajan; or maybe tied with the BPO Karajan for the spot.

Same for Jochum, Barbirolli and others, although all of the aforementioned come before the rest in my preference.

[Haffner]

Apologies to Bruce for butchering his post like this, but I find his wording as apt as any I might come up with, right now!


Karajan/VPO first and foremost, for me, and entirely unsurpassed - particularly for the "overwhelming" factor.


I also greatly enjoy Karajan's EMI recording with the Berlin Philharmonic (not sure if it's the one you have), and would add Wand's Berlin Philharmonic version to the list of those "top" overwhelming Bruckner 8ths (again, EMI).

Celibidache I don't mention because I'm not sure if he offers the "overwhelming" you want, but it is otherwise my second choice after the VPO Karajan; or maybe tied with the BPO Karajan for the spot.

Same for Jochum, Barbirolli and others, although all of the aforementioned come before the rest in my preference.

All you're doing is making me REALLY excited for my Karajan/VPO DVD. And I'm really grateful!

[rw1883]

Ok, I'm a bit embarrassed to mention this, but I've been way to eager to collect as many Bruckner 8th's as I can (the 8th is my all-time favorite symphony).  Most of the recordings are commercial releases, but quite a few are private.  As of January 2008, I have (here's the embarrassing part) ?? recordings...I can't admit it after all!

The ones that really stick out are:

1)  Asahina-1994 LIVE (Canyon Classics)
2)  Bohm-1974 LIVE (EMI Great Conductors of the 20th Century)
3)  Celibidache-1994 LIVE (Audior---really overwhelming, but an acquired taste)
4)  Furtwangler-1944 LIVE (Music & Arts---the greatest transfer yet by Aaron Z. Snyder, 2008)
5)  Giulini-1983 LIVE (BBC Legends---very powerful)
6)  Paita-1982 (Award-Australia---one of the best ritenutos for the final three notes of the finale)
7)  Wand-1996 LIVE (Memories Excellence---beats out his commercial 2001 RCA/BMG)

A couple of these you can still get at Berkshire (Celibidache-$13.98 & Wand $13.98). 

[Renfield]

All you're doing is making me REALLY excited for my Karajan/VPO DVD. And I'm really grateful!

That performance of the 8th, though, is very different than his later one with the same orchestra. Where on the CD recording (from the late 80's) it's overwhelmingly profound, on the DVD performance (from 1979, IIRC), it's searingly intense.

I trust you'll enjoy it. And as I said, I'm always glad to recommend good Karajan recordings, obsessively as I seek them out myself.


Oh, and I entirely forgot to mention another very, very great Bruckner 8th I've heard (and have): Furtwängler's, with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra (part of a DG set of Furtwängler performances).

If nothing else, it's the closest to the (DG) Karajan DVD's aesthetic, among all the other Bruckner 8th's I've heard. But of course, far from modern sound here; and I wish I could find the Music & Arts recording with the BPO to compare it with...

[Bonehelm]

I agree with Renfield that the late HvK/VPO recording is standing on top of almost all others. The last tutti E-D-C progression alone is worth the 25 dollars I paid for it.

[M forever]

This is what M wrote a few days ago when asked to compare the Karajan and the Giulini recordings with the WP:

Man, that is really hard to put in words. They are at the same time quite similar in many respects and also very different. Both are very lyrical readings but I would say Giulini's is more intensely "singing" and eloquent and has a strong personal element to it while Karajan's is more esthetically than emotionally driven, a little bit more distanced but not uninvolved. Somehow a little more "objective". That is very hard to put in words. Karajan's last recording of the 8th is rather more personal anyway than a lot of his earlier Bruckner without losing the "grandness". In that he and Giulini were very close to each other in these recordings. Giulini's music making had always been more personal, more intense and urgent. In this recording of the 8th symphony it is simply astonishing how he constantly shapes the music from the first to the last note in a very organic, breathing, singing way, and how the WP follow him and play as one big organism. So the result is music making which is very personal and detailed but also happening on a grander scale at the same time. That's what it also sounds like. The orchestra sounds very big and powerful and very intimate and detailed at the same time. Every note is in a place which makes sense. Nothing is irrelevant, overlooked, or underplayed. Nothing is overdone, but the music making is still very intense. This is as close to "the real thing" as it gets. Whatever "the real thing" is. This is simply music making which opens up views into a higher dimension. Karajan comes fairly close to that in a different, slightly more distanced, more observing than directly involved way, but I personally think the Giulini version is definitely just in a class of its own. I am not sure really I have ever heard music making on record which is quite on the same level as this recording of Bruckner 8 with Giulini. The orchestral plying is fabulous in both versions, no surprise there, I guess, the recorded sound is very good for both versions, too, fortunately the Karajan recordings made in Vienna sound much better than the ones made in Berlin around the same time, but the sound for the Giulini version is still a little warmer and more "natural" and less obviously "engineered".