Incorporation of tape..........

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I feel most modern tape music is behind in technology, both the music and the way it is often "performed" feels very underutilized. Rock bands in the 70s seemed to be performing more elaborate concerts, are we really that far behind?

In what ways do you think electronics in general could be used in a more elaborate way? I guess music which combines live instruments plus accompanying tape is one of the simplest varieties, but some really good pieces have come out of it, just like with any other utilisation of electronics.

[James]

Lmao

Depends what you're listening for in music. It's a silly idea to blame the creator rather than yourself for 'getting it wrong.'

The really good composers/players that have great skills, have melody throughout. Melody is prevalent.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

The really good composers/players that have great skills, have melody throughout. Melody is prevalent.

......and it's part of the sonic soundscape. What's your point?

[James]

......and it's part of the sonic soundscape. What's your point?

My point is clearly flying way over your head.

[Karl Henning]

My point is clearly flying way over your head.

Clearly.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[James]

I feel most modern tape music is behind in technology, both the music and the way it is often "performed" feels very underutilized.

Most art music electronica pales significantly with the great music that has been written and played on traditional instruments. Overall, electronics just don't have the same poise or nuance. And above all, much of it is about 'the sound', not the melody. There is a huge vacuum in much of it for having a strong melodic sense, hearing melody, or having great skills with melody. The best composers/players have great skills with melody. They understand the power of it. Composing a melody so great that it captures everyone is the hardest thing to do. Composing where is it perceptible throughout. Most of the post-war avant-garde stuff, what occurred there, had little to do with music, it was more about what it represented. Ditto all the highly derivative offshoots of that we see since (as evidenced in this thread). They all were a bunch of kids who wanted to be iconoclasts above all, a lot of it just lacks maturity, skill, and represents virtually no growth (especially compared to earlier styles of classical music - Baroque, Romantic, Classical). 99% of it is dated, and it had little ability or chance of reaching out beyond peers to lay people.

[some guy]

If the whole "greatness" thing is what helps you sleep at night, then it would be equally easy to say that all recent music written and played for traditional instruments pales significantly in comparison to the great music of the past. That art music electronica pales significantly when compared to contemporary art music for traditional intruments probably wouldn't be quite so easy to say, though I don't really know how easy things are to say or not, not really.

What is easy to say, for me, is that I don't have the foggiest idea what poise or nuance refer to when differentiating between electronically produced or manipulated sounds and sounds produced by traditional instruments. I'm pretty sure they refer to nothing.

As for melody, well, it's OK, I guess. I like sounds that go up and down as time goes by. But I also like sounds that stay the same as time goes by, or that change rhythmically (horizontally) rather than vertically. I'm pretty sure that "a melody so great that it captures everyone" is a null set. Nothing on earth or anywhere else captures everyone. People are different. You may have noticed it, yourself.

It would, in conclusion, be terrifically interesting to hear how it was that three or four generations of composers, give or take, all turned out to be a bunch of kids. Some of them might be a trifle put out to hear that. Most would probably just be amused. The more mature ones would be. And some of them might just take that as an enormous compliment, kids being so obviously and outrageously receptive and intelligent and capable of learning enormous amounts of information, seemly effortlessly. Yeah, I can see that a lot of people would be quite receptive to being compared with the group of people most able to see and understand and learn.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

only death captures everyone

~ jessop, 'veteran member'

[Contemporaryclassical]

Most art music electronica pales significantly with the great music that has been written and played on traditional instruments.

Actually the "traditional instruments" you speak of and "great music", is significantly more dated than electronic music. That's an issue: "I have a problem with today, so I shall look even further to the past for even more dated music".

The way electro-acoustic music is created, the way it uses sounds and the way it is consumed by it's audience hasn't even caught up in general to the 70s. The kinds of concerts we are getting in many non-classical genres are simply superior, as they are more stimulating and have a more lively atmosphere.
Regarding solely the vague genre of electronic music, non-classical electronic music tends to use a greater proportion of note spacing at one time (between low bass to higher registers simultaneously).

Electro-acoustic music isn't a fad or a dud, believe you me but like all classical music, has some major cultural adjusting to do.

[James]

it would be equally easy to say that all recent music written and played for traditional instruments pales significantly in comparison to the great music of the past.

Well yea .. you can easily extend what I said to include how they write/play traditional instruments too.

[James]

As for melody, well, it's OK, I guess. I like sounds that go up and down as time goes by.

Is that the sum total of what 'great skills with melody' entails for you? Is that how you interpret what that means and implies? LOL

[Florestan]

Is that the sum total of what 'great skills with melody' entails for you? Is that how you interpret what that means and implies? LOL

Don't LOL. He likes sounds, you like music. Two quite different things for which there is no common yardstick. 

[James]

Actually the "traditional instruments" you speak of and "great music", is significantly more dated than electronic music. That's an issue: "I have a problem with today, so I shall look even further to the past for even more dated music".

The way electro-acoustic music is created, the way it uses sounds and the way it is consumed by it's audience hasn't even caught up in general to the 70s. The kinds of concerts we are getting in many non-classical genres are simply superior, as they are more stimulating and have a more lively atmosphere.
Regarding solely the vague genre of electronic music, non-classical electronic music tends to use a greater proportion of note spacing at one time (between low bass to higher registers simultaneously).

Electro-acoustic music isn't a fad or a dud, believe you me but like all classical music, has some major cultural adjusting to do.

[James]

Don't LOL. He likes sounds, you like music. Two quite different things for which there is no common yardstick. 

Yea .. that's all it is. Sounds. Up and down.

New = de-evolution. 

[Florestan]

that's all it is. Sounds.

Exactly. He's repeatedly stated it in plain English.

[James]

Exactly. He's repeatedly stated it in plain English.

Yes, he certainly has - I can see that. Too bad for him.

[Monsieur Croche]

What I ment was that most of this shit just ends up being about the sound, not the melody.

Like I said, Catchytunes, Saskatchewan, Canada [© pb/poieinltd 2014] where every man, woman and child carries tunes around in buckets.  Or, you can always take melody refuge in your Paul McCartney collection....

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I really love the sound of music and the way I feel when I listen to it. What's so bad about understanding music in terms of sound? It certainly isn't the only way to think and talk about music but it is the only way we can actually hear music.