J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Marc]

So it would be frustrating for you, if the performance in question was a real eye-opener?

Oh no!

I can see for miles
When Scarlett plays in eye-opening styles.

[Mr. Minnow]

Thanks for the replies about Weinberger's set - very helpful, especially the reviews on Harry's blog. Just ordered it from JPC.

[Marc]

Thanks for the replies about Weinberger's set - very helpful, especially the reviews on Harry's blog. Just ordered it from JPC.

Good!

[André]

I know I'm being lazy, but I'm not really inclined to read all 127 pages of this thread  . So here's my question:

Quid of Kei Koito's Bach ? I bought 4 single discs of the repertoire I'm most interested in because I once read she was really excellent. What do GMGers think ?

[Mandryka]

I know I'm being lazy, but I'm not really inclined to read all 127 pages of this thread  . So here's my question:

Quid of Kei Koito's Bach ? I bought 4 single discs of the repertoire I'm most interested in because I once read she was really excellent. What do GMGers think ?

I've only heard the AoF and the CU 3.

Special organs, it's unusual to hear them in the music, they're well recorded; passionate and expressive interpretations;  limpid registrations, but nevertheless not always quite "equal status for each voice"  - she knows how to use the bass in a way which doesn't crush the rest; lyrical phrasing, underarticulated sometimes possibly; she likes to move the music forward, maybe too much; pedal in AoF, with some surprising results.
.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I know I'm being lazy, but I'm not really inclined to read all 127 pages of this thread  . So here's my question:

Quid of Kei Koito's Bach ? I bought 4 single discs of the repertoire I'm most interested in because I once read she was really excellent. What do GMGers think ?

Isn't five volumes the extent of her complete Bach so far, anyway?
Although I haven't as detailed and fine-eared a response as Mandryka, I know I do like what I hear. (When I put together a disc to test speakers, I instinctively grabbed her disc to choose two tracks for Bach/Organ to be on the disc.)

[André]

Koito has also recorded the 6 trio sonatas and other stuff (concertos) on another label, but this seems hard to get and/or quite expensive. In any case, 5 discs of «chosen» masterworks is just the ticket for me, as I already have integral sets by Chapuis and Vernet.

Thank you both for the details on her style and artistry. Sound clips only give an idea but what I heard was very pleasing: luminous sound and nice forward motion are qualities I value very much in Bach organ playing.

[Mr. Minnow]

Does anyone here have the organ works from Hanssler's complete Bach edition? I see it's performed by a number of different organists, but I'm not familiar with most of them. I'd be interested to know if there are radical differences in interpretation between them.

[Que]

Does anyone here have the organ works from Hanssler's complete Bach edition? I see it's performed by a number of different organists, but I'm not familiar with most of them. I'd be interested to know if there are radical differences in interpretation between them.

Depends on what you consider radical..... They all play in a historically informed style on what are mostly period organs (but not all).

Other than that: Andrea Marcon and Bine Katrine Bryndorf are very different performers, to give an example.

Anyway, I would recommend the set.

Q

[Marc]

Does anyone here have the organ works from Hanssler's complete Bach edition? I see it's performed by a number of different organists, but I'm not familiar with most of them. I'd be interested to know if there are radical differences in interpretation between them.

It's a great set IMO, and all organists are fine, or even very very fine.
Interesting listening to well-informed players, on, in most cases, great sounding organs.
Martin Lücker was, IIRC, the most 'old-fashioned' player, with the use of many changes in registration.
Bryndorf, Johannsen and Zerer are good examples of 'no nonsense' way of playing.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Does anyone here have the organ works from Hanssler's complete Bach edition? I see it's performed by a number of different organists, but I'm not familiar with most of them. I'd be interested to know if there are radical differences in interpretation between them.

If you mouse-over on the picture on the Bach Organ Cycle Survey (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2013/09/a-survey-of-bach-organ-cycles.html), you get all the organs used.
I haven't listened to it in a long time and I only remember some discs a LOT... and some a little less.  K. Johannsen, I remember especially liking. Other than that, what Que said.

[Mandryka]

Zerer are good examples of 'no nonsense' way of playing.

This maybe explains why I didn't care so much for his Scheidt at Kantens. I'm a nonsense kind of guy.

[Marc]

This maybe explains why I didn't care so much for his Scheidt at Kantens. I'm a nonsense kind of guy.

Could be.

Despite that:
Playing Scheidt ≠ playing Bach.
Scheidt can take more nonsense than Bach.

[prémont]

Scheidt can take more nonsense than Bach.

How does this nonsense make sense?

[SurprisedByBeauty]

How does this nonsense make sense?

Hehe! I have to say that I probably don't know Scheidt well enough to understand this, even trying to... but doesn't Bach withstand just about any kind of nonsense short of Jean Guillou?

[Marc]

Hehe, too.

Of course, it was a generalization, and in fact a 'reversed' generalization.
The word 'nonsense' was used as opposed to 'no nonsense'.
I didn't mean 'without any sense'.

I meant to say that, IMHO, compared to much of the 17th century German organ music, it's less of a 'problem' when Bach is played in a 'no nonsense' style.

From the discs that I have of Zerer, and from his concerts that I attended, I consider his approach as a 'no nonsense' one, which, in Zerer's case, means sober and direct. But this approach can work against him in earlier baroque music than Bach's, because I feel that in those works more fantasy, imagination, tempo & registration changes, IOW 'interpretation' can be a plus.

[Mandryka]

I don't want to pick on Zerer, I thought what he did with the Scheidt Cantio Sacra was stimulating, it's just that I enjoy Bestehorn more. Bestehorn may in fact be more sober. The Kantens organ sounds wonderful and is colourful, Zerer in fact seems there to be one of the Dutch school which likes to play symphonically -  pungent contrasting colours simultaneously - like Tuinstra in Bohm. In fact I feel rather similarly about Zerer's Scheidt as I do about some of Tuinstra's Bohm (though there's clearly more of it!)

[Marc]

I don't want to pick on Zerer, I thought what he did with the Scheidt Cantio Sacra was stimulating, it's just that I enjoy Bestehorn more. The Kantens organ sounds wonderful and is colourful, Zerer in fact seems there to be one of the Dutch school which likes to play symphonically - lots of colours - like Tuinstra in Bohm. In fact I feel rather similarly about Zerer's Scheidt as I do about some of Tuinstra's Bohm (though there's clearly more of it!)

I recognize the 'symphonical' thing. And yes, the Kantens organ is a beauty.

I didn't want to pick on Zerer, either, btw. I've always enjoyed his concerts, though sometimes, afterwards, I had the feeling that I missed something. Not easy to describe though. Spirituality maybe? But that's such a vague notion. Let's just say, that, here on some Groningen organs, I felt more spiritually enlifted whilst and after listening to organists like Harald Vogel, Vincent van Laar, Peter Westerbrink and 'even' Ton Koopman (in chorale-based works, either from Bach or any 17th century composer, fast Ton can be wonderful).

[Harry]

I think the Zerer recording in Kantens one of the best he ever recorded. I do not miss anything in his playing style, spiritually or on a technical level. I did my bit on this organ in Kantens, and it's a very difficult instrument to play on, and of course I do not get near to what Zerer delivers. So considering this, I think any criticism is a personal one, and not necessarily true for the rest of us.

Secondly the Hanssler box is a very viable option to acquire, first of all for the historic organs, and secondly for the quality of the organists.
I started with the first two discs of this set, and although I am not wholly impressed by Kay Johannsen, he nevertheless gets enough authority out of Bach's works to thoroughly enjoying them.
Plus the fact that it can be had for very little money.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

But this approach can work against [an interpreter] in earlier baroque music than Bach's, because I feel that in those works more fantasy, imagination, tempo & registration changes, IOW 'interpretation' can be a plus.

Ah, this I whole-heartedly agree with. They do need a little extra kick to get through to our modern sensibility.