The Validity of Suggestions

[Don]

I tend to make my musical journey alone, to a greater extent.

Same here.  I read and subscribe to most of the English speaking review mags because I enjoy reading them, not because my intent is to go out and buy what's recommended.

I write reviews because I enjoy doing so - nothing more.  What readers do with those reviews isn't my business.  All I can do is give it my best shot.

[Great Gable]

Same here.  I read and subscribe to most of the English speaking review mags because I enjoy reading them, not because my intent is to go out and buy what's recommended.

I write reviews because I enjoy doing so - nothing more.  What readers do with those reviews isn't my business.  All I can do is give it my best shot.

That's the best reason Don. The enthusiast's perspective. The rather unpleasant side of forums arises when the review is accompanied by a tacit, and sometimes not so tacit, ownership of the music. It would never bother me if someone thought my musical tastes were shite - they often do. Not all forum users can take criticism of their "sacred cows".

[Don]

Agreed - everything is subjective. It's just that not everyone seems to be aware of that concept.

I think that the knowledge of a work and its recordings makes a big difference.  A recommendation for Bruckner's 7th symphony from someone who is only familar with two recordings of the work is essentially useless.

[George]

I don't think there's any point to be proven. 

If that's the case, then why do we often have members arguing/fighting over their subjective opinions?

Having said the above, what don't you care for about the Tureck?  Is the sound quality a hindrance?  Are the tempos too slow for your tastes?  Want more exuberance?  How many times have you listened to the set?

I'll be glad to discuss that elsewhere, but it is not the topic of this thread so I will refrain from doing so here. 

[George]

That's the best reason Don. The enthusiast's perspective. The rather unpleasant side of forums arises when the review is accompanied by a tacit, and sometimes not so tacit, ownership of the music. It would never bother me if someone thought my musical tastes were shite - they often do. Not all forum users can take criticism of their "sacred cows".

Indeed. I suspect that they have invested a great deal of their identity in what they like/don't like and take it as a personal affront.

[Don]

That's the best reason Don. The enthusiast's perspective. The rather unpleasant side of forums arises when the review is accompanied by a tacit, and sometimes not so tacit, ownership of the music.

Right.  A reviewer should never put forth the "It's my way or the highway" perspective.

[Great Gable]

I think that the knowledge of a work and its recordings makes a big difference.  A recommendation for Bruckner's 7th symphony from someone who is only familar with two recordings of the work is essentially useless.

But how often is a review accompanied by the honesty of experience? You tell me - I have been here only a short time. I can't recall seeing it too often.

[MN Dave]

I think you have to be a specialist to write a review and perhaps also to understand whether a review is valid or not. If you are a musical generalist, you may know what type of work you like, but in general will probably be pretty happy with most professional recordings of that work.

[Josquin des Prez]

I see now we're moving this sickening relativism into recordings. Nice. How about we close the forum altogether and be done with it? 

There aren't a lot of people that i trust on recordings here. Some are discerning enough to move past beyond the initial impression and offer a valid, informed opinion (Val for instance), which is good but not always enough. There used to be a member whom i feel was dead on on recordings almost every single time (Steve Molino), but he's no longer with us and i since lost contact with him, which is regretful.

[Don]

If that's the case, then why do we often have members arguing/fighting over their subjective opinions?

What others do is their problem.  Besides, this is a discussion site where folks advance their own tastes and sometimes dump on the preferences of others.  The review process is a different animal.

[George]

I see now we're moving this sickening relativism into recordings. Nice. How about we close the forum altogether and be done with it? 

More proof that "your opinion isn't mine." 

[George]

What others do is their problem. 

When it infects every other thread on this forum, it becomes all of our problem. 

[Josquin des Prez]

If that's the case, then why do we often have members arguing/fighting over their subjective opinions?

Perhaps because they feel there's nothing 'subjective' about their 'opinions'.

[Mark]

This is a very interesting thread, George.

In many ways, you're absolutely right. But then, so is Don. And Dave. And Great Gable. And now you see the problem. There are as many opinions as there are people to hold them. It doesn't automatically mean some are 'better' than others. Or that they're all valid. But when someone has gained a lot of knowledge in a particular area, it can be useful - but not necessarily essential - to pay heed to their findings.

Let me give you some examples from among members here at GMG. As Don says, there's him with Bach's Goldberg Variations; sidoze's extensive knowledge of Chopin recordings; Sarge's many hours invested in Wagner's Ring cycle; you - and even more so, Todd - are the men to consult regarding Beethoven's Piano Sonatas; M Forever has a broad, well-developed understanding of orchestral music in general; Karl is the 'go-to guy' for Stravinsky; jwinter probably won't be beaten for his in-depth exploration of Beethoven symphony cycles; D Minor is a great resource for Brahms recordings; and there's even me, with my 22 recordings (and counting) of Rachmaninov's Vespers, 14 of Brahms' A German Requiem and 11 of Saint-Saens' Third Symphony - to name just three works for which I feel vaguely qualified, by virtue of listening alone, to make some kind of reliable recommendations. All these members' opinions count for something, as they represent a wealth of listening experience. And yet, when it comes to art, everything remains subjective in terms of whether or not someone else will like what we like.

Sadly (or perhaps, happily), that's just the way it is.

[MN Dave]

I see now we're moving this sickening relativism into recordings. Nice. How about we close the forum altogether and be done with it? 

There's the door. Don't let it hit you on the ass on the way out.

[Don]

But how often is a review accompanied by the honesty of experience? You tell me - I have been here only a short time. I can't recall seeing it too often.

With little exception, I don't feel that reviews are written on this board - just personal preferences.  For my money, review magazines and websites such as MusicWeb are much more reliable.

I'm a good example of the above.  When I recommend on this board, I do it quickly.  When I review for MusicWeb, it's a long and thoughtful process.

[George]

Perhaps because they feel there's nothing 'subjective' about their 'opinions'.

Bullseye!!

[Don]

When it infects every other thread on this forum, it becomes all of our problem. 

Please speak for yourself.  I don't think there's any infection or problem.  Since this is a discussion forum, I don't really expect anything beyond what I get from this site.

[George]

This is a very interesting thread, George.

Hey, you would have started it sooner or later. 

[MN Dave]

I also think just because you own a lot of recordings of a work, it doesn't necessarily make you an expert. It just means you like it a whole lot.