J.S. Bach on the Organ

[dissily Mordentroge]

duplicate post removed.

[Marc]

That works nicely...thank you, just ordered it.

It's a bit off-topic, but man, the recordings of the violin/harpsichord sonatas, the flute/harpsichord pieces and the motets are really very very good. A splendid time is guaranteed for you.

[prémont]

Some 'authorities' describe the rattle and clunk of tracker action mechanisms as part of this.
Not that it matters to the majority of the congegation/audience far enough removed from these extraneous (authentic?) noises.
... Why is it some modern organ builders place horizontal trumpet stops so close to the organists ears their hearing can actually be damaged through frequent use or desensitised in the upper regions thorugh short term exposure ? I've witnessed choristers made to stand under these ear blasters hold their hands over their ears in self defence. Anyhow, I'm very fond of Chiff. I have wonderful memories of the intruments in San Petronia chiffing away along with rattles and clunks so loud as to be funny.

These trumpet stops en chamade have always irritated me except for Iberian 17c music. And modern organ builders have often used them in a stramge way. Have you heard the Marcussen organ of Jægersborg church? Karl Richter recorded a number of Bach works for DG on it in the 1960es. The trumpets dominate the sound picture in a truly baroque way (here baroque means bizarre) .

Chiff may often (on modern "neobaroque" organs) be too dominant, but usually - as I have written elsewhere - it is the white noise, which is their most annoying "feature", particularly in the principal plenum.

[prémont]

That works nicely...thank you, just ordered it.

Only 3 organ CDs in the Archive box. It can supplement but not replace the Novalis set.

[prémont]

I consider this (originally Novalis) stuff the best Koopman has to offer in Bach, together with his Trio Sonatas disc for Archiv/Deutsche Grammophon.

Completely agreed. To the trio sonatas from the Archiv set I would add the passacaglia, but I find the toccatas of the Archiv set rather irksome

[Marc]

Only 3 organ CDs in the Archive box. It can supplement but not replace the Novalis set.

True that. And it's a pity Koopman didn't do BWV 544 for either Novalis or DG.
But the 6 non-organ DG discs are a treat.

[dissily Mordentroge]

These trumpet stops en chamade have always irritated me except for Iberian 17c music. And modern organ builders have often used them in a stramge way. Have you heard the Marcussen organ of Jægersborg church? Karl Richter recorded a number of Bach works for DG on it in the 1960es. The trumpets dominate the sound picture in a truly baroque way (here baroque means bizarre) .

Chiff may often (on modern "neobaroque" organs) be too dominant, but usually - as I have written elsewhere - it is the white noise, which is their most annoying "feature", particularly in the principal plenum.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by 'white noise' in this context. I normally take such to refer to an artefact of inferior electronics used during a recording process although I know it has other meanings.
I've only heard the Marcussen organ in recordings and even though my audio system is no slouch I can't make a valid judgement. It appears to me however more organ recordings than I care to think about are very badly done, the major problems are either having way too much muddled delay from the building itself or placing mikes so close to the intrument it's absurd.

[prémont]

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by 'white noise' in this context. I normally take such to refer to an artefact of inferior electronics used during a recording process although I know it has other meanings.
I've only heard the Marcussen organ in recordings and even though my audio system is no slouch I can't make a valid judgement. It appears to me however more organ recordings than I care to think about are very badly done, the major problems are either having way too much muddled delay from the building itself or placing mikes so close to the intrument it's absurd.

The white noise is the sum of the chaos of high partials, particularly prominent in an equally tuned organ. May resemble tinnitus.

The idea of close miking is - do I think - to reduce the hall, but of course the mikes shouldn't be put so close that one can't perceive the "geography" of the organ (HW,BW,RP et.c.). However of these two bad things I prefer too close miking to too distant miking. But there are organs and venues which exclude fair recordings.

[dissily Mordentroge]

The white noise is the sum of the chaos of high partials, particularly prominent in an equally tuned organ. May resemble tinnitus.

Indeed, I've had that painful experience too often and found myself wondering what the organ builders were thinking.

The idea of close miking is - do I think - to reduce the hall, but of course the mikes shouldn't be put so close that one can't perceive the "geography" of the organ (HW,BW,RP et.c.). However of these two bad things I prefer too close miking to too distant miking. But there are organs and venues which exclude fair recordings.

Some recently constructed organs I've encountered have the ranks scattered all over the place, possibly in the interest of 'looking modern'. The result has my brain struggling to 'reconstruct the music. A difficult concept to describe. Organs in venues which prevent decent recording are too numerous. I blame organ manufacturers for being seduced by the smell of money. The Tokyo cathedral comes to mind. A potentially brilliant tracker action instrument in an acoustic that reminded me of the Grand Canyon. Others however appear to be very impressed by it. On the other hand there are some instruments that can be both bad and brilliant depending upon where the listener places themselves. The Rieger organ at Scot's Church Collins St, Melbourne is utterly seductive if you sit dead opposite. Sit in the main body of the church and the over short reverberation has it sounding dead. Still, organists frequently travel from the other side of the planet to play it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajofs4waeL0&spfreload=1

[dissily Mordentroge]

 Duplicate post deleted.
I've no idea what I'm doing that keeps triggering this.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I ordered the box set. I can't  wait. Thank you, gents!

.

@Mandryka, you once recommended this box set to me:



It's Ton Koopman playing Bach works on various organs. Well, it's been a few months now and I'm just finally coming around on organ music enough to the point where I think I would actually find value in such a set. Do you stand by your recommendation? I like what little I've heard of the music here and it's going for cheaply enough anyway. Or do you think there is a better option out there? I have also been considering Helmut Walcha's box, which I understand is on the other end of the spectrum...?

[JBS]

I too gave into temptation ordered it.

[Mandryka]

(Leonhardt's former Müller in Waalse Kerk)

Indeed.

[prémont]

I do not know if anybody (e.g. Jens) know, but two new Bach organ integrals are being recorded:

1) Marie-Ange Leurent and Eric Lebrun in collaboration (Monthabor Music), 6 volumes á 2 CDs released so far.

2) Enrico Viccardi for Fugatto, 6 volumes á 1 or 2 CDs released so far.

Edit: I have of course ordered the released CDs from both sets.

[staxomega]

[asin]B000059RHV[/asin]

According to the Amazon reviews JS Bach was some sort of punk rocker, I thought I had a good amount of Bach, I guess not

[Marc]

I do not know if anybody (e.g. Jens) know, but two new Bach organ integrals are being recorded:

1) Marie-Ange Leurent and Eric Lebrun in collaboration (Monthabor Music), 6 volumes á 2 CDs released so far.

2) Enrico Viccardi for Fugatto, 6 volumes á 1 or 2 CDs released so far.

Edit: I have of course ordered the released CDs from both sets.

'Edit' not needed.

This doesn't mean that I'm not interested in what your opinions are. So, if you have checked them out... please share.

[Marc]

According to the Amazon reviews JS Bach was some sort of punk rocker, I thought I had a good amount of Bach, I guess not

It's always great fun when Amazon swtiches links, but forgets to change/switch the reviews. Like wanting to read reviews of Tallis' Lamentations of Jeremiah and being confronted with lines like "darn, those guitar solos really rock!".

Apparently they sold some 'other' stuff under this link earlier. But, mind you, if one Bach interpreter can be called 'punk', then I guess it must be Ton Koopman. He sometimes plays at punk rock speed indeed.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I do not know if anybody (e.g. Jens) know, but two new Bach organ integrals are being recorded:

1) Marie-Ange Leurent and Eric Lebrun in collaboration (Monthabor Music), 6 volumes á 2 CDs released so far.

2) Enrico Viccardi for Fugatto, 6 volumes á 1 or 2 CDs released so far.

Edit: I have of course ordered the released CDs from both sets.

Thanks for the notification!!!

If anyone cares:

Here are the organs used in the first five volumes of Viccardi's set:

Masioni, St.Maria Assunta, Giubiasco, CH
Amati/Giani, St.Lorenzo, Maneribo, IT
Chiminelli, St.Maurizio, Breno, IT
Zanin, St.Babila, Milan, IT
Dell'Orto/Lanzini, St.Maria Assunta, Vigliano Biellese, IT

[prémont]

'Edit' not needed.

This doesn't mean that I'm not interested in what your opinions are. So, if you have checked them out... please share.

It may take a couple of weeks until I receive them.

[vers la flamme]

I ordered the Koopman set as well. Very excited to receive it.

Edit: Damn, the seller has cancelled my order... and it looks like you all have ordered up all the cheap copies.  Well, back to the drawing board, I guess.