Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[Haffner]

ummmm ok

i don't think it works, though, it's not dark enough for one.... and there's too much random stuff. lol

Greg, I get the feeling you're at least as "Metal" as I am... ?

[Al Moritz]

I know the Tale recording, but I like the Kronos as well (and it certainly isn't "dreadful").

[paulb]

I know the Tale recording, but I like the Kronos as well (and it certainly isn't "dreadful").

The Kronos has done a wonderous recording of these modern masterpieces.
"too much random stuff".
Schnittke speaks a  strange language, these certainly are not like any other sq style. Either you get Schnittke, or you are left in the dark, there's little middle ground here.
I love almost all things  by Schnittke.

[greg]

Greg, I get the feeling you're at least as "Metal" as I am... ?

maybe so 
after listening to stuff like the 2nd and 3rd symphonies, Piano Concerto, 1st 2 Violin Sonatas, and 1st Concerto Grosso, i feel this is another composer i'll be strongly addicted to.....

his String Quartets, Requiem, 4th Symphony, Peer Gynt, 1st Symphony, a couple others is the stuff i've mainly heard for the last couple of years, and the only one out of those i really love is the 1st symphony. But then i listen to the above-mentioned music and WOW! it's like the style of the 1st Symphony, except possibly even better!

Symphonies 6, 7, and 8, actually aren't that bad either...... the whole deal with his late style is that there's not too much technique going on, it's more about mood and you have to feel the mood to keep from being bored to death.

[Haffner]

the whole deal with his late style is that there's not too much technique going on, it's more about mood and you have to feel the mood to keep from being bored to death.

Excellent insight, and I agree. I also apply this to certain other composers as well. Fill in the blanks.

[Valentino]

I've only heard, or should I write seen, one of his pieces: Moz-art a la Haydn. Fun, dramatic (with some arresting work from the 2nd cellist come lightmaster, but only a divertimento.

[Al Moritz]

Symphonies 6, 7, and 8, actually aren't that bad either...... the whole deal with his late style is that there's not too much technique going on, it's more about mood and you have to feel the mood to keep from being bored to death.

I listen to Symphonies 6 and 7 structurally and in terms of musical tension that is produced, and it's riveting. Yes, the mood is there, but it's not what makes the music addictive to me.

[not edward]

Symphonies 6, 7, and 8, actually aren't that bad either...... the whole deal with his late style is that there's not too much technique going on, it's more about mood and you have to feel the mood to keep from being bored to death.

I'd agree about technique, but not about mood: the late symphonies to me are simply an attempt to write a music without any of the filler that is usually present, so all the essential material is there, but the harmonies are stripped down, bridging passages are often replaced by periods of silence, the contrapuntal writing is largely elided and so on. To me, one of the key things about these works is to listen to them in the context of what they "should" be; that's where their radicalism comes in. (I'd lke to have heard the original version of the 6th symphony, which apparently is even more extreme than the final version, and has several lengthy passages that are simply silent.)

I think the influence of late Nono is key to these works: I believe Schnittke is writing without the filler because he saw how, in late Nono, the primary driver of musical tension is the alternation between simple material and silence, and he wanted to see if he could build a style which did the same thing in a tonal context. I'm not sure he always succeeds in this, but where he does the results are intriguing.

[Sergeant Rock]

I hit the wrong button on an online purchase a while back and now have a second copy of Schnittke's Concerto Grosso4/Symphony5 coupled with Pianissimo für Grosses Orchester (Järvi and Gothenburg); still shrink-wrapped. Free to anyone who wants it. Preference given to the young and destitute. PM me.

Sarge

EDIT: We have a winner....not so young, but he assures me he's destitute 

[Sergeant Rock]

The Kronos has done a wonderous recording of these modern masterpieces.
"too much random stuff".
Schnittke speaks a  strange language, these certainly are not like any other sq style. Either you get Schnittke, or you are left in the dark, there's little middle ground here.
I love almost all things  by Schnittke.

Hey, Paul. Good to see you here again. Don't be a stranger.

Sarge

[not edward]

Preference given to the young and destitute. PM me.

I'll keep my grubby paws off the PM button, then.

[paulb]

Hey, Paul. Good to see you here again. Don't be a stranger.

Sarge

Yes will do. thanks.
I;'ve been over at amazon last 3 months, cool place, get to say what i want, no  snides, no fear from back attacks.

Schinttke is not all that easy to become acquainted with, his music requires a  bit of attention and time. Of all my CM experiences , by far Schnittke has proven the most challenging. So newbies don't toss that Schnittke disc just yet.
I sold off the 4 vc;'s Kremer, didn't click, except the 4th. Anyway sold it last yr for $30, now there is only 1 listing on amzon, $200.
I heard the Kagan/Live Classics in the 3rd, I like this vc.
I order the 4th on amzon, arriving from  germany anyday now, back with Kremer but this time has the great russian conductor Rozhdestvensky. I'm sure to be blown away this time.
I'll try for the 1,2 vc's  in the future.
btw everyone head over to their recording of Schnittke's cello concerto 2/Ivashkin/Chandos. Schnittke never rarely fails to disappoint. But you need to have the mind that can grasp his forms, otherwise you are left in the dark.

[Sergeant Rock]

Yes will do. thanks.
I;'ve been over at amazon last 3 months, cool place, get to say what i want, no  snides, no fear from back attacks.

Well, I can't promise you won't be attacked again here but I hope it doesn't deter you posting. You have very individual, even idiosyncratic views about CM and you have to expect some negative reactions. However, I hope the discussion and debate stay civilized. I joined the forum shortly after you left it two years ago. I noticed there was real regret that you'd left, even among those who taunted you the most. You were liked, Paul, even if they didn't agree with everything you said. The Pettersson thread on the old forum was one of the longest ever.

I sold off the 4 vc's Kremer, didn't click....I order the 4th on amzon, arriving from  germany anyday now, back with Kremer but this time has the great russian conductor Rozhdestvensky. I'm sure to be blown away this time.

I don't know the violin concertos at all but I do own Rozh's recording of the Viola and First Cello Concertos. Very nice indeed.

Sarge

[greg]

I'd agree about technique, but not about mood: the late symphonies to me are simply an attempt to write a music without any of the filler that is usually present, so all the essential material is there, but the harmonies are stripped down, bridging passages are often replaced by periods of silence, the contrapuntal writing is largely elided and so on. To me, one of the key things about these works is to listen to them in the context of what they "should" be; that's where their radicalism comes in. (I'd lke to have heard the original version of the 6th symphony, which apparently is even more extreme than the final version, and has several lengthy passages that are simply silent.)

I think the influence of late Nono is key to these works: I believe Schnittke is writing without the filler because he saw how, in late Nono, the primary driver of musical tension is the alternation between simple material and silence, and he wanted to see if he could build a style which did the same thing in a tonal context. I'm not sure he always succeeds in this, but where he does the results are intriguing.

knowing that helps me understand his late style a lot better! 

[paulb]

Well, I can't promise you won't be attacked again here but I hope it doesn't deter you posting. You have very individual, even idiosyncratic views about CM and you have to expect some negative reactions. However, I hope the discussion and debate stay civilized. I joined the forum shortly after you left it two years ago. I noticed there was real regret that you'd left, even among those who taunted you the most. You were liked, Paul, even if they didn't agree with everything you said. The Pettersson thread on the old forum was one of the longest ever.


I don't know the violin concertos at all but I do own Rozh's recording of the Viola and First Cello Concertos. Very nice indeed.

Sarge

Glad others here finally came around to Pettersson. I think over the next 2 decades his fan base will grow, maybe as big as Elliot Carter's, but maybe not.
I foresee these 5 composers gaining in recognition in the next 2 decades, Pettersson, Schnittke, Carter, Hartmann, and my latest discovery from Youtube Pierre Boulez, which I have no cds as yet.
These 5 I feel will be better known and deserve the recognition, above the countless names in late 20th C music.

I don't expect much trouble here, now that I will be ck in only  sporadically.
The forum thugs who like to surpress free speech  will have to catch me  if they can.
HA!

Besides I only plan to post on  4 topics, I'll be Ok, Pettersson, Carter, Schnittke, and Hartmann if he has a  topic here. Most who are fond of these composers all have good spirits.
Kindly
Paul

[greg]

I don't expect much trouble here, now that I will be ck in only  sporadically.
The forum thugs who like to surpress free speech  will have to catch me  if they can.
HA!

Kindly
Paul

just do what Sean does, register and post for awhile (but not the crazy stuff he posts), deregister, and so on again and again....

btw, nice to have you back for a little bit, Paul 

[paulb]

just do what Sean does, register and post for awhile (but not the crazy stuff he posts), deregister, and so on again and again....

btw, nice to have you back for a little bit, Paul 

Thanks Greg. Hope all are in good health. More than i can say for the "ciity" of "new" Orleans. Katrina may be long gone in one sense, but the winds seem not to let up. Streets with no man hole covers so cars can drive their front wheel in, and no cones to let you know "look out you are about to drive in  man hole".
This hole is out my back door, been there since Katrina. No man hole cover!!! just barely off the middle of the street. Someone stuck a  board in the 15 ft sewer hole for some forwaring\. so far everyone has avoid the 2 yr hole.
and many more horrors.

Paul

[greg]

i can imagine driving into a huge whole there..... my parents would be like, "you gotta watch out for potholes!"
"i couldn't see it..."
"that's no excuse..."

[paulb]

i can imagine driving into a huge whole there..... my parents would be like, "you gotta watch out for potholes!"
"i couldn't see it..."
"that's no excuse..."

Yeah this one sucks in the entire front wheel system = car totaled. In one pothole.
You can see all the way down to the bottom of the sewer as the water flows through the sytem.
Heck on my street a  Hummer has to dodge one other pot hole, or else he;ll need front end work., and thats not exaggerating!
One street the entire block of 1/4 mile is all pot hole, you have to drive on the side by the grass to pass!!
With no gov in sight.
Mayor 'where the hell is he" Nagin, disappears all the time.
Help us Washington, we need billions more!!! For ever.

[greg]

i guess your state lacks all of the hard working Mexicans all of the other southern states have 

"Fill pothole?"
"Yep, that's the job"
"5 dollars?"
"Yep"
"Gracias!"